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That Bi+ch!! Those were my favorite jeans! I just knew that she had them all along.

If you happen to cross paths with this chick, she'll just use you for your body and then steal your favorite pair of jeans. Don't make the same mistake I did - steer clear of this one brothers!
 

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ScreamJem7 said:
That Bi+ch!! Those were my favorite jeans! I just knew that she had them all along.

If you happen to cross paths with this chick, she'll just use you for your body and then steal your favorite pair of jeans. Don't make the same mistake I did - steer clear of this one brothers!
Hahaha you must me a pimp
 

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I actully LOVE GAP jeans, shirts, trousers (that's pants for US folk), pants (that's boxer shorts for US folk), socks, tshirts, jackets (denim and chords) and pretty much anything and everything they sell.
The vast majority of my clothes are GAP....they just fit and I like the cut.
Smart-casual meets new age hippy.....I love GAP.

ilia
 

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i can't stand their TV ads - aaaahhhh!
she's looks great in anything or nothing i'm sure.
TJ
 

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she has a nice body (what you can see of it) but the other girl has a prettier face IMHO.
 

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dex said:
I actully LOVE GAP jeans, shirts, trousers (that's pants for US folk), pants (that's boxer shorts for US folk), socks, tshirts, jackets (denim and chords) and pretty much anything and everything they sell.
The vast majority of my clothes are GAP....they just fit and I like the cut.
Smart-casual meets new age hippy.....I love GAP.

ilia
Hundreds of sweatshop workers would disagree with your sentiments towards this company...did you know about the "Boycott The Gap" movement?

"While the new labor report by Gap Inc. (SF Chronicle 5/13/04) reveals pervasive labor abuses at Gap's 3,009 sweatshops worldwide--an unusual disclosure--Gap Inc. fails to offer reparations for decades of labor profiteering which has seriously harmed thousands of workers. Nor, of course, does Gap Inc. suggest public oversight and control, and strong enforceable international labor law--measures likely to insure fairness and justice in the world's workplaces."

This is not an attack, merely a bringing to awareness, given with much respect.
 

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Straight after Uni I used to work for Debenhams in their London headquarters and was an assistant purchaser for them (briefly as it wasn't really something I wanted to do) working with a purchaser, a buyer and couple of designers.
What happens is the buyer scouts the competition and decides what type of clothes to get, the designers change them a little bit so there's no copyright infringement and then we used to get them sent over to Korea, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Taiwan, Turkey, etc to factories where they were made for us.
These factories are local private busineses competing for work from most all clothes retailers in Europe and North America and as such are not owned by GAP or Levis or Nike or anyone really - they are just a supplyer.
Anyway, what I found out is that even brand names like Levis and Wrangler cost something silly like $5.60 delivered to the UK......that's right, the 501s you paid £42 for only cost Debenhams $5.60 to get, add cost of sales (rent, bills, transportation, staff, tax) and the net cost of a pair of jeans is still something around £20.
I know it's sad but greed is the only reason Wesern Europe and North America are doing as well as they are and every company operating today is run one and one way only - profit maximising.
Making as much money as you can, at as minimal costs as possible, it's just how things are.

Anyway, my point is that big multinational companies are not to blame as much as local legislation, local greed and lack of accountability and keep in mind that if these guys could not compete on the world market (as clothes supplyers) they would not be in business.
All I'm saying is that whyle the work conditions are tragic and the wages paid are a pittance (that's called exploitation) in most of these places the net effect is positive.
People have jobs and as we all know from history it doesn't take long for the working class to organise in trade unions and to start making changes.
The really sad thing is that as soon as they do take charge and demand better condition/pay the enterprise won't be efficient enough to compete and we'll see most of these operations shift to Africa and Central Asia.
In 20 years time Made in Zambia, Made in Mozambique and Made in Mongolia will dominate the clothing market.....
It's economic conditions and not GAP (or Nike or Levis) that are to blame.

ilia
 

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My sister is a significant player in the UK fair trade movement, so I come from a reasonably informed background. The larger companies could do a LOT more to help workers in these countries. They are the ones with the economic power to effect change at the most basic level, at the level of those local suppliers. If they demand fair and just, basic human rights for their workers, things WILL change. Yet sadly very often they turn a blind eye to persecution and exploitation of human beings, or even cover up abusive practices! All in the name of profit? And who gains from profit? Shareholders, board members, human beings who will live and die just like the rest of us and have a right to a life free from suffering.

I only wear clothes that I can wittingly source from either fair trade companies or companies with clean operating practices. Companies do exist that interact with local suppliers and buyers, and the workers to achieve a balanced, respectful social ontology. These large western companies either live or die based upon our individual choices as moral consumers. It is really down to us to shop from companies that are clean or lobby them to make a change. It's one thing for consumers to be ignorant, but to deny one's conscience is a tragedy.
 

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Dude, you are absolutely right and if that's how you feel than that is how you feel.
All I'm asking you is to consider that when you are a huge multinational company like Nike, Gap and Levis you can't aford to check all your subcontractors and all your outsourced operations and even if/when you do you might be under contractual obligations to stay with them for another 6/12 months regardles of your finds.
It's very sad but these are the consequences of industrialisation, capitalism, globalisation and different cultures and ethics abroad.

To put this in perspective........

http://www.incipientposthuman.com/bad.htm

ilia
 

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wow this thread took a serious turn didn't it?
GAP is the middle line of the same company with Banana Republic above and Old Navy below. most of America buys from one of these companies.
sure the companies could make a difference but local law should protect their own population - where's the accountability fall? consumer, manufacturer or country of origin?
 

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I have certainly considered "that when you are a huge multinational company like Nike, Gap and Levis you can't afford to check all your subcontractors and all your outsourced operations."

I have certainly considered it and rejected part of it. I reiterate that it is because of their size that they can undertake the according investigations and ensure that all - or at least a lot more than now - is above board.

A proposition that I would defend is that these companies have put profit above human life and dignity. They have actively created huge, global marketing campaigns and the strive towards cheaper and cheaper production processes. They have been knowingly using sweatshop labour and covering up their practices or using dummy companies to outsource so that they appear clean for YEARS. It is largely (maybe even only) because of independent investigations that they were found out, and still they carry on lying or ignoring the issue.

Other companies have demonstrated ethical models of business, some of them large. It is really very simple: if the heads of these companies truly wanted to check out their suppliers they could. But it's far easier for Nike just to ignore the problem, because it's only a bunch of uncultured foreigners making shoes, right? They should be thankful for the jobs! Ahem. God forbid that these companies might even invest some of their massive profits in meaningful education programs in these towns in which they utilise labour, instead of the lip service and token gestures they have made.

Tiger Woods is sponsored by Nike and he wants his 20 million year-->Nike sells a pair of $8 sneakers for $130 because some NBA dude is seen wearing them and people think that he looks cool and maybe will make them look cool too-->Tiger Woods wants more money because he just won the Open-->Nike decides to squeeze its suppliers and doesn't investigate their abusive practices-->people suffer. And if anyone says it's okay because Tiger gives his money to a charity in the Philippines I shall weep.

Look at the Gap shirt, the Diesel jacket...a human being with feelings and a mother and father has suffered for that company, and others continue to suffer under abusive work conditions so profits can be made.

Thank you for the link to the site, and some of those statistics are directly contributed to by these large companies choosing a path of self-interest to the detriment of "Other."

If one wants to buy from these companies maybe one should have to spend a month working in a sweatshop. I wonder how fast Nike would last then...? The reality is far too removed from the marketed product.

Yes sorry demon, you are right - should've taken it into another thread.
 

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dex said:
Dude, you are absolutely right and if that's how you feel than that is how you feel.
All I'm asking you is to consider that when you are a huge multinational company like Nike, Gap and Levis you can't aford to check all your subcontractors and all your outsourced operations and even if/when you do you might be under contractual obligations to stay with them for another 6/12 months regardles of your finds.
It's very sad but these are the consequences of industrialisation, capitalism, globalisation and different cultures and ethics abroad.

To put this in perspective........

http://www.incipientposthuman.com/bad.htm

ilia
It sure does.

Regards

André
 
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