[Ashurbanipal]

Ha, you guys have some serious Ibanez graveyards going 💀😱.

Not much to add as you and Mr. Bob have covered all the salient points of the problems this bridge has. The anatomy and level of geek is appreciated though. Got my popcorn out.

Ibanez must've spent quite a bit of dough on the designing and tooling up for all these bridges, only to make them out of talc and use 'wider than what everyone else uses' stud spacing so it's impossible to swap with anything else. Given the excessively complicated design, there was no choice but to cast everything.

As I've said previously, I simply locked mine bridge with 5 springs and slammed it against the body. I do enjoy having the fine tuners, though, for quick adjustments, without fiddling with my fretting hand. That's about the only plus of the bridge (and the pop-in arm) .

Instead of designing and making a whole new bridge (an interesting challenge all the same), the simplest solution, in my view, would be to machine appropriate adapter plates for a Kahler – two types, allowing for flat or carved to mounting, depending on the guitar model. The plates would have to be sufficiently tall so string height is correct and you wouldn't have to mill down the neck pocket (unless you want to do that for a more Strat-like feel for the picking hand). I have seen someone do this for an RS530 years ago on some forum, I think they used an aftermarket adapter plate you can still get these days.

As an aside, I've seen someone put those Wilkinson locking saddles on a Hard Rocker. Yes, the latter doesn't quite cover the back of the Pro Rock'r route but otherwise works.

I guess you're thinking of adding some kind of metal strip behind the saddles to act as the retainer for the springs.

I haven't tested this myself, but do Pro Rock'r studs have the same thread as 2LE2B?

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Mm, I see what you mean. A detachable bracket which would 'grab' the block so it can't move when you fasten it with bolts to the block and the body.

Regarding Kahlers, if you go on Whammy Parts, you can see the different bridges and respective adapter plates for them. They're also stackable in case the guitar has a steeper neck angle. Some relevant text: Kahler: Adapter and stacker plate installation guidelines - Whammy Parts.

Actually, I found the pics of the guitar I was talking about on an old hd (hooray for archiving). I'm not sure how much or if the beck pocket has been milled down at all, so the bridge isn't sitting high like in the stock configuration. Looks cool and probably works much better than factory spec! You can also lock Kahlers so they become hardtail.

Found another modder, of a PR1660:

http://imgur.com/a/mzBVhGi

This one seems to have the stock neck mounting, and maybe a diy adapter plate.

Hm, those studs have pretty fine threads, similar to OFR. I was thinking actual Edge/Lo Pro studs, which look like this. Obviously, they are shorter because all double lockers now are recessed, but the threads look kinda similar, hence my question.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Good to know about the studs; I thought they looked similar in their threads and diameter. Another element carried over to the Edge, in addition to the arm holder. So basically if you make a new trem with knife edges, existing inserts can be used with a pair of 2LE2Bs , though you couldn't lock them, because the Pro Rock'r inserts don't have a solid base.

You're going all out . Like when Floyd was starting out back in the day - those early trems were all hand tooled.

I wonder if it might be worth trying these saddles.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Part of it is probably to do with the supply chain/manufacturing backlogs still going on, but the cost generally reflects its more specialty function, also since presumably only they can make them (no licensing out of the design).

I guess a 'from scratch' solution would be cutting/machining a hardened steel plate with knife edges to work with 2LE2B studs and allowing for the mounting of aftermarket saddles, Edge/Lo Pro arm holder, maybe even aftermarket blocks, since a steel trem wouldn't need the same degree of support as the oem type.

All in all, it's a job for a situation which needs some knowledge of design, engineering and the right tools .

It'll be interesting to see what the feel is like with your modded bridge. I didn't use mine much before I locked it down, but compared to an Edge, it felt kinda like those old see-saws in playgrounds we all had a go on back in the day , probably because the block is further back than on most trems.

The 'tragic flaw' of a Roadstar - great guitar, crappy bridge which potentially leads to situations of fateful doom, like using the whammy beyond what the gods allow.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

They had to do it that way because the guitar has a carved top, so they fitted a Kahler with a mounting system designed for Les Pauls. The ones which are flat mounted, like the 530 and PR1660 in the other thread, do look better; they just need an adapter plate, which also sets the height and hides old routes.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Yes, they would've had to drill for the studs, which on a Gibson would've used the existing tailpiece ones, and maybe elongating the route so the cam mechanism has clearance. The funky trems were partly an exercise in Ibanez trying to circumvent paying royalties to Floyd for licensing his system, but in the end they got smart and realized his design was the best, while offering their own interpretation, which now stands on its own. Bit of trivia: Floyd originally made a deal with Fernandes in Japan to manufacture his trem, but then went with Schaller in 1983.

I think a Schaller Hannes bridge would be sweet on a Roadstar 😁. Of course, that would require heaps of work.

I guess Ibanez thinks of the solid, double cut Artist as their competitor against the LP. There never was significant emphasis on this side of things, particularly once the 80s and shred/metal gained traction, though the Artist has remained a well thought of guitar to this day (they did do some lower end single cut versions too in the past 15 years or so), despite also not having a high profile long-time player associated with it.

There was also the PF series in the late 70s, some of which were basically LPs, but they didn't last long.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Can't remember what the last, more widely available MIJ Artist was, maybe the Genesis when the series was launched back in 2018 , and they discontinued it pretty quickly, no doubt because it wasn't selling well. Yes, they're all MIC these days.

I suppose the reason they probably won't reissue Roadstars in a major way is that the AZ kind of picks up from the original principle and refines it. At most, they may do a Genesis RS as an updated throwback, limited rather than a regular production thing.

By 1986, the Roadstars had come of age, arguably the best spec'd ones, but the company was in the dumps and units weren't moving. The suits at Hoshino will look at that and think 'why would we want to reissue guitars we couldn't sell?' It would probably take some serious artist cred for them to turn the wheels, as exemplified by the recent introduction of a new thin-bodied electric nylon, a concept that was tried in the late 90s and tanked. This is the surer recipe - if a new model is in the works, make protos and send them to artists, and if they like it, offer them sigs alongside regular models. Though there were a couple of well known artists who played Roadstars in the day, they were brief stints, and only Lukather had an actual sig.

Those are good specs , can we have a tremolo version also? Though I think for a MIJ Prestige level, it would be closer to £1700.

Maybe one thing kinda similar to what you're thinking of which they did do was the SC model from the late 90s/early 00s, a dual hb hardtail S with a thicker body and neck profile. This particular Prestige one (1620) was only around briefly.

Yeah. Certainly, if you look at the massive custom Ibanez thread on the forum, there's lots of sweet guitars which make you wonder why they didn't do something like that. Indeed, Tak Hosono, who's the top builder at LACS, used to post on the forum years ago.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Haha, I saw that. Though for this year there are two new Kiko Ibz, so I doubt he's jumping ship any time soon.

Yes, the AZ looks to compete more with the likes of Suhr, Anderson and the like. I have seen a hardtail LACS one (Gibraltar bridge, pair of X2Ns), so other kinds of stuff is no doubt out there. The line will be coming of age pretty soon, so let's see what they do with it. The only carved top s-types are the RGA and SA, as far as I can tell.

I'm not an old guy either, I like them primarily on the basis of the neck. I cut my teeth on an RG and eventually got tired of the thin neck and other stuff, so I did a bunch of reading/looking before deciding on the PLs/RSs.

They would still have all the old templates and everything, so knocking one up wouldn't be an issue, also now that CNCs have their digital capacities. I'm sure the JPCS 6 was done like this, though with some customization since the originals did not have an aanj. I'd like to know what's happened to that one; occasionally see some of the others pop up for sale. Otherwise, we just have to become Ibanez artists and get Tak at LACS to build us these things. Building one's own would be a fun project, but a lot of preparatory work.

On the whole, Ibanez never struck me as a company that dwells on their past in the way some other, particularly US, brands do, despite the fact that they also have a good pedigree of classic models. Even when an older model is reissued, it's not always a 100% exact reproduction, like you'd have with a Les Paul or a Strat (where people also lose their $hit if the colour of the plastics is off ). The 20th 550s were a case in point - the neck is built like the Genesis but with the additional KTS titanium rods.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Yes. The 7 string version has been around for a bit already - HH and HSS, and a HH Premium.

PLs are nice, if you can find one, they were the equivalent of Prestige today. The neck shape has been described as something between an Ultra and an old Jem. It's quite slim, though not like Wizard, but very comfortable imo, also helped by the giant frets, which add to the overall feel of neck depth.

Most expensive Roadstar ever, I'm sure. It's very cool, but EMGs and lacquered neck – meh, for me anyway.

Could be; certainly the suits at the very top are probably not guitar guys and primarily interested in numbers. Hoshino started out as a bookstore over 100 years ago, then they began expanding their commercial ventures into other stuff like guitars, acquiring the Ibanez name from Spain (Salvador Ibáñez was a luthier in the late 19th-early 20th century), as they felt it would be easier to sell guitars with a Spanish name than a Japanese one.

Yes, lots of stuff happened quite rapidly in the 80s - Floyd Rose and other kinds of locking trems, proliferation of aftermarket pups and other bits, wild paint etc.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Very occasionally they're flamed, they weren't specifically selecting billets on the basis of that, except for the 1880NW tops and backs. The 650 is still fairly reasonably priced, despite the fact that they were confined to the Japanese market, so fewer of them are about in other places.

I was actually thinking about this the other day, though the current intention seems to be confined to extended range stuff with extra frets or strings, multi-scale, and it's mostly RGs. I feel like they did this better with the basses in the 'Bass Workshop' line. With the guitars, it's not stuff we haven't seen before - the Xiphos has 27 frets back in 2009 or whenever; 8 and 9 string have been around for a while now; we had the 30 fret 550xh ten years ago.

Yeah, that sounds about right – a knife edge plate which would allow one to drop in some 2LE2Bs.

Aside from a bridge kit, a full conversion is another, though more costly, possibility. As an example of something similar, there's a bloke in the US who specializes in this for the BMG Red Special, the one that costs £800 new. You can send your guitar to him, or he can supply you with the materials - prefabricated wood plugs for the trem and pu cavities, new scratchplate and electrics mount plate, replica trem and bridge. There's obviously sufficient demand for this, since a replica of the Red Special built the roller bridge and knife edge trem is over 3-4k, depending on overall spec and where you look. People happily pay for a conversion, and still have a guitar that's close enough to the real thing without costing like a more accurate replica.

Whether there would be interest in such a thing for Roadstars, I don't know. A kit to use existing bridge setup would be more viable/less costly.

The other annoyance is the size/placement of the headstock string lock, which requires removal to adjust the truss rod .