[Mr_Scotia]

Funny you ask @JsXLine6, just the other day i done a very crude photo shop of my guitar with a ToM on it to see how it would look visually. That would obviously ditch any originality factor but it would make a very good guitar.

The two main things that pose problems with this is the post spacing at 84mm and the fact its an arched top. If i had a Roadstar with a Pro Rock'r and a flat body it would make my life easier with regards to making a custom bridge.

The reason im trying to work with existing post spacing and cavity route is so i can revert it back to standard in the future when i come to sell it. With that said, im starting to consider sacrificing my natural finish RS1300. I got it fairly cheap and its pretty beat up compared to my red one. I would remove front and rear veneers, binding and basically rebuild the body by filling the bridge cavity and rear spring cavity with wood. Then re-instate the veneer and binding and install a ToM, i could do a veneer on the headstock too so i can get rid of the Top Lok system.

Ive included a photo of my red RS1300 when i was building that, you can see the cavity route and post spacing, i think that Floyd Rose system would foul the bridge pickup area, i quickly checked dimensions and i don't think it would work.

One bonus if i modify my natural one is the fact i can sell the bridge for decent money and recoup almost half of what i paid for the full guitar, making the whole process a bit cheaper in the long run.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

Found a black Roadstar RS1300 on Reverb in the UK today, has a Kahler fitted so i zoomed in and took screen shots so you can see how it fits. Looks like the OEM bridge post threads have been blocked with thumb screws, Kahler posts are drilled much further back. I personally don't like it too much and would opt for a ToM conversion, certainly more expensive that way but those Kahler bridges don't look super appealing to me.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

They had to do it that way because the guitar has a carved top, so they fitted a Kahler with a mounting system designed for Les Pauls. The ones which are flat mounted, like the 530 and PR1660 in the other thread, do look better; they just need an adapter plate, which also sets the height and hides old routes.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

Its a really strange looking set up. Well done to whoever fitted it though because it looks like a clean install, also well done to the owner pulling the trigger and trying to make it a better guitar. Its soul destroying looking through old catalogues and seeing how many guitars are cursed with a Pro Rock'r, at least it was short lived i suppose.

Im basically on the fence with mines now, i think il continue making my prototype fixed bridge variant for now but my head is just telling me to put a ToM on my RS1300NT. The natural one is way more rough than my red one so it doesn't merit the same treatment as the red one got. Ive already loosely priced up a ToM conversion with regards to hardware, binding and veneer. I would still need to pay labour costs of course but it would be worth it in the long run.

I think Ibanez could actually target Gibson customers with a modern ToM RS1300. Has an arched top, PAF style pickups, fairly big neck, decent weight etc. I looked at the Ibanez website and there's lots of things to tempt Jackson, Suhr, Fender customers but nothing that would suit Gibson players. With a few tweaks to the old RS1300 it could be viable for someone who prefers Les Pauls?

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Yes, they would've had to drill for the studs, which on a Gibson would've used the existing tailpiece ones, and maybe elongating the route so the cam mechanism has clearance. The funky trems were partly an exercise in Ibanez trying to circumvent paying royalties to Floyd for licensing his system, but in the end they got smart and realized his design was the best, while offering their own interpretation, which now stands on its own. Bit of trivia: Floyd originally made a deal with Fernandes in Japan to manufacture his trem, but then went with Schaller in 1983.

I think a Schaller Hannes bridge would be sweet on a Roadstar 😁. Of course, that would require heaps of work.

I guess Ibanez thinks of the solid, double cut Artist as their competitor against the LP. There never was significant emphasis on this side of things, particularly once the 80s and shred/metal gained traction, though the Artist has remained a well thought of guitar to this day (they did do some lower end single cut versions too in the past 15 years or so), despite also not having a high profile long-time player associated with it.

There was also the PF series in the late 70s, some of which were basically LPs, but they didn't last long.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

I have seen the Performers and i don't like them too much, i think its too close to a Les Paul to have any merit on its own if that makes sense. I much prefer the Concert series on that side of things, i also dislike guitars with a set neck so my Artist options are basically limited to neck thru models.

I would have thought an arch top Roadstar with a ToM could maybe bridge the gap between LP shapes and SS, i think the reason Artists aren't taken too seriously these days is due to being made in china now, i would have to look through the wiki but i don't think Artists have been MIJ for a long time. Another thing that gets me is the 550/565 Genesis line, those are fairly high tech and high spec guitars straight out the box and they can afford to sell them at roughly $/£1000 a pop, so surely a MIJ ToM Roadstar would be more profitable and way easier to make?

Even in the used market Roadstar RS1000/1300 seem to list at prices from 800-1200 depending on supply/demand. Ive got £1200 minimum for a Roadstar reissue, ive even thought it out. Call it the RS2000, have either AANJ or tilt joint to improve access, carve out the back of the lower horn a bit more too. A8 Super 70 in the bridge and A3 Super 58 in the neck, Gotoh hardware, Basswood body w/ nice veneer and binding, Roadstar DX neck profile, medium jumbo frets. Job done

If Ibanez don't do it this year then the guitar i just laid out above is basically what il build with mines. I dunno, maybe Hoshino should let jemsite users run product management for a week and see what the outcome is

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Can't remember what the last, more widely available MIJ Artist was, maybe the Genesis when the series was launched back in 2018 , and they discontinued it pretty quickly, no doubt because it wasn't selling well. Yes, they're all MIC these days.

I suppose the reason they probably won't reissue Roadstars in a major way is that the AZ kind of picks up from the original principle and refines it. At most, they may do a Genesis RS as an updated throwback, limited rather than a regular production thing.

By 1986, the Roadstars had come of age, arguably the best spec'd ones, but the company was in the dumps and units weren't moving. The suits at Hoshino will look at that and think 'why would we want to reissue guitars we couldn't sell?' It would probably take some serious artist cred for them to turn the wheels, as exemplified by the recent introduction of a new thin-bodied electric nylon, a concept that was tried in the late 90s and tanked. This is the surer recipe - if a new model is in the works, make protos and send them to artists, and if they like it, offer them sigs alongside regular models. Though there were a couple of well known artists who played Roadstars in the day, they were brief stints, and only Lukather had an actual sig.

Those are good specs , can we have a tremolo version also? Though I think for a MIJ Prestige level, it would be closer to £1700.

Maybe one thing kinda similar to what you're thinking of which they did do was the SC model from the late 90s/early 00s, a dual hb hardtail S with a thicker body and neck profile. This particular Prestige one (1620) was only around briefly.

Yeah. Certainly, if you look at the massive custom Ibanez thread on the forum, there's lots of sweet guitars which make you wonder why they didn't do something like that. Indeed, Tak Hosono, who's the top builder at LACS, used to post on the forum years ago.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

One thing i noticed last night watching a Megadeth live show was Kiko using a Gibson Les Paul for 2 songs which really set my alarm bells off, that reinforced my ToM Roadstar narrative ten fold .

I had a look at the modern Ibanez stuff and it all looks the same to me, the only real ToM guitars i think are Artist and Iceman, both of which are mostly MIC. 90% of AZ models feature a floating bridge and they are more strat shaped in my opinion. I would say that AZ stuff is comparable to lower spec Roadstar shapes like RS135/140 etc due to the strat vibe but i personally don't think a modern AZ compares with a RS1000/1300 body shape.

I think the sharp edges and carved top is what strikes me the most, the horns are a unique shape too which gives it its own look. I need to be clear here, im in my early 30's so its not like im some older dude longing for times gone by. I literally grew up on RG's but since discovering these old Roadstar 1300's im totally taken by them. i just think it was a shame they were short lived and were handicapped with the Pro Rock'r.

Il front the money for Ibanez to build a prototype, take it to NAMM or whatever, do some social media hyping and see if the interest is there, if they feel it merits being put in to production then give me my money back and a guitar. If not, then il pay for the prototype and all costs involved, keep it for myself and Ibanez can tell everyone it was just a token tribute guitar to celebrate the 40th anniversary. Win win

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Haha, I saw that. Though for this year there are two new Kiko Ibz, so I doubt he's jumping ship any time soon.

Yes, the AZ looks to compete more with the likes of Suhr, Anderson and the like. I have seen a hardtail LACS one (Gibraltar bridge, pair of X2Ns), so other kinds of stuff is no doubt out there. The line will be coming of age pretty soon, so let's see what they do with it. The only carved top s-types are the RGA and SA, as far as I can tell.

I'm not an old guy either, I like them primarily on the basis of the neck. I cut my teeth on an RG and eventually got tired of the thin neck and other stuff, so I did a bunch of reading/looking before deciding on the PLs/RSs.

They would still have all the old templates and everything, so knocking one up wouldn't be an issue, also now that CNCs have their digital capacities. I'm sure the JPCS 6 was done like this, though with some customization since the originals did not have an aanj. I'd like to know what's happened to that one; occasionally see some of the others pop up for sale. Otherwise, we just have to become Ibanez artists and get Tak at LACS to build us these things. Building one's own would be a fun project, but a lot of preparatory work.

On the whole, Ibanez never struck me as a company that dwells on their past in the way some other, particularly US, brands do, despite the fact that they also have a good pedigree of classic models. Even when an older model is reissued, it's not always a 100% exact reproduction, like you'd have with a Les Paul or a Strat (where people also lose their $hit if the colour of the plastics is off ). The 20th 550s were a case in point - the neck is built like the Genesis but with the additional KTS titanium rods.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

I think the only new addition to AZ line this year was the S-S-S config? I think i seen someone talking about a potential 7 string AZ? Maybe im wrong though.

I just feel like sometimes i sound like one of these older dudes who romanticises the olden days I didn't expect to be so interested in these guitars, i bought my first RS1300 online, unseen, unplayed. I don't even know what possessed me to buy it. I expected to play more mellow stuff on it but its actually a really good metal rhythm guitar. Since ive discovered the vintage style necks and the endless variety available im just hunting down as many as possible. I was blown away with the neck on my RR50, Im actually interested in a PL model to check out those necks too.

I think that the Roadstar 2022, Rootbeer Iceman and the weird S body with the holes cut out were the most talked about among those 50 guitars from what i seen. I also wonder what happened to it, it was a mighty amount of money for a Roadstar

Maybe because Hoshino is a business first and a guitar brand second they don't view the guitars as a heritage thing and more of a money making vessel, who knows. I think because the 80's was a period for guitar innovation on steroids some things got tossed quickly as new things came along. If no one is interested in the older models il gladly stand here and absorb all of them haha.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Yes. The 7 string version has been around for a bit already - HH and HSS, and a HH Premium.

PLs are nice, if you can find one, they were the equivalent of Prestige today. The neck shape has been described as something between an Ultra and an old Jem. It's quite slim, though not like Wizard, but very comfortable imo, also helped by the giant frets, which add to the overall feel of neck depth.

Most expensive Roadstar ever, I'm sure. It's very cool, but EMGs and lacquered neck – meh, for me anyway.

Could be; certainly the suits at the very top are probably not guitar guys and primarily interested in numbers. Hoshino started out as a bookstore over 100 years ago, then they began expanding their commercial ventures into other stuff like guitars, acquiring the Ibanez name from Spain (Salvador Ibáñez was a luthier in the late 19th-early 20th century), as they felt it would be easier to sell guitars with a Spanish name than a Japanese one.

Yes, lots of stuff happened quite rapidly in the 80s - Floyd Rose and other kinds of locking trems, proliferation of aftermarket pups and other bits, wild paint etc.

 

[Mr_Scotia]

Im hoping to try pick up a PL650 or similar, there was a black one in mint condition listed on reverb uk a few months back but i didn't pull the trigger on it. The back of the neck was flamed, it looked excellent but i think i was fresh off a few other purchases which held me back.

I wonder if the new Axe Design Lab could be used to reintroduce Roadstars albeit in lower numbers, i suppose they will never know if the demand is there until they release one. I think purely based off the fact that old Roadstars still seem to move easily enough in the used market makes me think there's still some sort of demand. And that's with a car crash for a bridge on it....

Moving forward il keep working on my modified Pro Rock'r so i can at least present a working solution, i feel like i need to conquer the issue in its original form, re-routing the cavity and changing the bridge is the easy way out Hopefully it will encourage others to do something similar so some of these guitars can be saved in the long run. If i do go ahead with a ToM conversion il detail that too but i think a custom sustain block and generic 10.8mm saddles would be cheaper and easier for most people.

You could basically put together a kit with a custom sustain block, 10.8mm saddles, longer intonation screws with springs and a pressed steel plate to sit on top of the bridge. I don't have the capacity to offer that but if someone else wanted to build it and monetize it i would encourage it.

The only issue is having your original Pro Rock'r pressed flat if its really bent out of shape, my engineer is top drawer, university educated metals and welding wizard. The company he works with has NASA contracts. If you take this bridge plate to anyone other than that then its probably going to break when you try straighten it and welding it back together is simply not possible. You only get one chance with these things then its game over.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Very occasionally they're flamed, they weren't specifically selecting billets on the basis of that, except for the 1880NW tops and backs. The 650 is still fairly reasonably priced, despite the fact that they were confined to the Japanese market, so fewer of them are about in other places.

I was actually thinking about this the other day, though the current intention seems to be confined to extended range stuff with extra frets or strings, multi-scale, and it's mostly RGs. I feel like they did this better with the basses in the 'Bass Workshop' line. With the guitars, it's not stuff we haven't seen before - the Xiphos has 27 frets back in 2009 or whenever; 8 and 9 string have been around for a while now; we had the 30 fret 550xh ten years ago.

Yeah, that sounds about right – a knife edge plate which would allow one to drop in some 2LE2Bs.

Aside from a bridge kit, a full conversion is another, though more costly, possibility. As an example of something similar, there's a bloke in the US who specializes in this for the BMG Red Special, the one that costs £800 new. You can send your guitar to him, or he can supply you with the materials - prefabricated wood plugs for the trem and pu cavities, new scratchplate and electrics mount plate, replica trem and bridge. There's obviously sufficient demand for this, since a replica of the Red Special built the roller bridge and knife edge trem is over 3-4k, depending on overall spec and where you look. People happily pay for a conversion, and still have a guitar that's close enough to the real thing without costing like a more accurate replica.

Whether there would be interest in such a thing for Roadstars, I don't know. A kit to use existing bridge setup would be more viable/less costly.

The other annoyance is the size/placement of the headstock string lock, which requires removal to adjust the truss rod .