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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone...

I got home from work tonight and got my mail.... first time in a couple of days and got the locking stud mod from Rich, so I decided to install it...

Installation went without a problIem, I get the trem back on the guitar and string it up. Now to tune it up... so far all is cool... (this sounds like a horror story right?) but I just cannot tune the damn guitar tonight. Normally I do not have a problem whatsoever with tuning, but tonight I'm all over the place. Does not help that my tuner decided to die on me.

So I had to screw the trem spring screws in the back further in than I did before and that freaked me out, and the trem is still pulling up! I tuned to a song I know is in 440 (normally I don't even need a reference point!), and the trem was still pulling way up... with only 9s on it... uh oh!

When I think I finally got it in tune, and play along with the song and I am way off. I fix it and thought I had it right. So I decide to play along with the same song now that I tuned to it, and was way the hell sharp. Now keep in mind in the past, I ever so rarely have to make a slight tuning adjustment to my Jem (7vwh), it has always held a tune, and I think someone slipped some **** in my drink or something, but it's kind of scaring me!

And for the record I'm not drunk or on anything - I swear my BAC is 0.00% right now and I don't do drugs. Maybe not smoking in 3 hours does this, but even so...
 

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How are your springs installed, 3 straight l l l ? if so try them this way / l \ with the point of the 'v' towards the claw . That did the trick for me when I had that problem. Hope you get it straightened out, I've been where you are and it can be frustrating to say the least. Also (i'm sure you have) make sure your strings are fully stretched. Good luck !
 

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What you first need to check is whether or not your studs are slipping. im sure Rich will have more info i havent really had to do the stud mod so Im not sure what issues might arise afterwards. For the time being think about the parts you removed and put back on. If it was in key before it could be a few things. If you just recently changed strings they could just still be stretching a lot. Are you sure youve got the studs locked down properly? Is the trem properly seated on the studs? The studs at an optimal height in comparison to each other to allow tuning stability?
 

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Rich said:
Typical spring shock - bottom of the page.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/tuning.htm
Yup. The older style locking studs have a size different "lip" on them (right Rich?). This requires you to readjust your float fairly considerably from the newer non-locking ones. I've now done 5 of these (four of my own, and one friend's) and it's old hat to me now.

Just crank in or out on the springs as much as needed to get the float to neutral (forget your old "normal" claw position), use the crap out of the bar (pulling up and diving), then readjust if necessary and repeat until stable. Eventually it will stabilize.

Like Rich says, it may take a tad for the springs to adjust and establish a new "memory".

Also, don't forget to add some Chapstick to the studs while you're doing all this. You may not need it, but it sure has helped on all of mine.

RR
 

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I probably should have read it closer. I thought it was the trem is way flat and can't get it in tune without the action going an inch high deal.

Every stud, new, old, whatever, is cut to a different depth. Angle will always have to be adjusted.

Tuning a floating bridge without a tuner? Pointless ;)
 

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Rich said:
I probably should have read it closer. I thought it was the trem is way flat and can't get it in tune without the action going an inch high deal.

Every stud, new, old, whatever, is cut to a different depth. Angle will always have to be adjusted.

Tuning a floating bridge without a tuner? Pointless ;)
Agreed on the tuner issue 100%
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I got it and I am pretty damn close to 440. Had to redo my intonation though.

I got the bridge near perfect but I had to screw the screws in with 9s a whole lot further than before. I actually went a little too far and have to back out on them when I get the chance as I opted for sleep last night and am too lazy at the moment to do it. The return is quite excellent!

And Rich.... that is what I did to finally get it to work - shoved a sock under the trem to hold it up. But the worst part was I just could not tune the guitar for the life of me last night... it's like I was a little bit drunk - I could still hear it being off if I listen very carefully, but I couldn't get it right!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GTR-MAN said:
How are your springs installed, 3 straight l l l ? if so try them this way / l \ with the point of the 'v' towards the claw . That did the trick for me when I had that problem. Hope you get it straightened out, I've been where you are and it can be frustrating to say the least. Also (i'm sure you have) make sure your strings are fully stretched. Good luck !
Yeah I was hoping I wouldn't have to cross them for 9s. I have a bit of room left, but it's just that I had to go further than usual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rich said:
I probably should have read it closer. I thought it was the trem is way flat and can't get it in tune without the action going an inch high deal.

Every stud, new, old, whatever, is cut to a different depth. Angle will always have to be adjusted.

Tuning a floating bridge without a tuner? Pointless ;)
You would be amazed at how good I can NORMALLY tune to 440. When I am done tuning, even my tuner (not the best tuner but not the worst) can't tell it's off! :)

It did take me a while to get it right and all, I think paranoia about ****ing something up and the fact I couldn't tune for the life of me was the biggest problem though.
 

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You know, in the interest of a more readable forum, red, all three of those could have been condensed to a single post, rather than three quoted responses... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
^^ Well I thought I said it the first time. And I was messed up on something... lack of oxygen in my house or something :p
 

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I'm sorry... not a believer in the locking studs.

My Jem 7VWH is rock solid... stays in tune, returns to pitch from both extremes (dives and pulls) -- and I get pretty radical with it at times. Got a '90s Ibanez with original edge... I prefer edge pro.

If it ain't broke... why futz with it? Kinda reminds me of when a lotta people were freakin' about the change to rosewood fretboards from ebony... 'cuz ebony's better... sheeah, phffft!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
^^^ I don't think ebony is necessarily better. I STRONGLY prefer rosewood over ebony on Les Pauls for instance. But what pisses me off about switching rosewood to ebony on the 7vwh is the 7wvh was the only Jem that had an ebony fretboard, so we lost that option.

You can still prefer the Edge Pro and have locking studs. Your guitar will in no way get any worse if it does not get better :)
 

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red5 said:
But what pisses me off about switching rosewood to ebony on the 7vwh is the 7wvh was the only Jem that had an ebony fretboard, so we lost that option.
Yeah. I can understand that. What trips me out is why 7VWH's had ebony in the firstplace... when Steve Vai's proto 7VWH's (EVO for instance) all had rosewood fingerboards.

Changing the trems is a bit more understandable as the technology changes over time and EVO has the original edge because it has had that since 1993, when the 7VWH line originated.

Yeah, I don't see how installing locking studs is gonna hurt anything on the edge pro... but I'm lazy, and why go to the trouble if there is no problem (IMHO). People who consider the non-locking studs a "fatal" flaw on the edge pros... well most of them don't seem to own an actual edge pro.

Everyone who has a guitar with an edge pro and has complained about it so far... it appears to simply be a problem with set-up or something simple like that (i.e., sharp bur on string saddle). I guess we'll see if it is poorly engineered 10 years or so down the road -- I think they'll hold up personally (without non-standard mods). I'm very impressed with the overall quality of my 2004 Jem 7VWH.

Anyways... end rant. heh.
 

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miker said:
Yeah. I can understand that. What trips me out is why 7VWH's had ebony in the firstplace... when Steve Vai's proto 7VWH's (EVO for instance) all had rosewood fingerboards.

Changing the trems is a bit more understandable as the technology changes over time and EVO has the original edge because it has had that since 1993, when the 7VWH line originated.

Yeah, I don't see how installing locking studs is gonna hurt anything on the edge pro... but I'm lazy, and why go to the trouble if there is no problem (IMHO). People who consider the non-locking studs a "fatal" flaw on the edge pros... well most of them don't seem to own an actual edge pro.

Everyone who has a guitar with an edge pro and has complained about it so far... it appears to simply be a problem with set-up or something simple like that (i.e., sharp bur on string saddle). I guess we'll see if it is poorly engineered 10 years or so down the road -- I think they'll hold up personally (without non-standard mods). I'm very impressed with the overall quality of my 2004 Jem 7VWH.

Anyways... end rant. heh.
Just because your guitar doesn't need it don't make that predetermination for everyone else. You obviously don't get the email about the problems I do.

The whole dropping of the lockers was predicated on the illusion Gotoh was going to remove ALL the thread slop between the stud and inserts. Wishful thinking, it didn't happen. Although every now and then I'll find one of these close tollerance matched stud/inserts, by far the predominance is loose and sloppy, like they always were. And one snug combined with a loose and sloppy on the same guitar is, loose and sloppy.

YMMV, if you aint broke why bother, but you make allot of general broad statements that are only your supposition and not grounded in fact.
 

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Yes Rich... agreed. They are broad statements. Not necessarily supposition, but my own experiences with my one Jem guitar (which to my limited exposure on this trem equates to fact, to me at least)... this may also be equivalent to your own experiences with your first Jem 2003 7VWH edge pro guitar, which seemed to be quite good.

It may presumptuous to extrapolate my own experiences on one guitar to an entire population (as I don't seem to have radius issues either on mine -- but you have posted pictures of this problem on other guitars). Point taken.

Haven't seen you write too much on the trems since 2003...

http://www.ibanezrules.com/namm/2003/trems.htm

I would expect that the quality of subsequent years of the same model would show some improvement. But that is also simply a supposition based on previous experiences with any company rolling out a new model of something.

Admittedly, I don't hear any complaints on the edge pro... maybe you might update your edge pro review... time allowing and if the inclination strikes you.
 

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I've updated that trem page somewhat, since that's where the info is.

They're actually getting worse lately on the radius. About 5 in a row anyway with an A saddle way too high, like the bases are curved and since it's only being held at the tip of the saddle it's kicking the back side up.

I had a few send me very accurate "scientific" reports where the data was collected very diliberately. Stock, studs added, then after filling, then after lube. Needless to say the reason they were telling me all of it was because of how much better each step got them to perfect.

The first VWH I did was quite good, but the first Edge Pro I did was a 1570L that was just horrid in return to neutral ;)

I quite testing long long ago. I do the mod on everything and I know for a fact I never have to worry about an unsatisfactory result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I figure it's a good precaution for the future incase studs ever pull out on me or eventually it causes tuning instability. My return was most excellent before the mod.

Well update: I fixed that half-ass setup I did after the mod (due to desire to sleep!) and again my return is dead perfect! :)
 
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