Joe Satriani Alternate Picking ?!?!

18194 Views 82 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Drew, Aug 20, 2007

twooos

Discussion Starter · May 30, 2007

people say hes a shred head... but the only "shred" ive heard him play is probably legato, and the occasional arpeggio (mystical potato head groove thing). is there any songs/videos in which he alternate picks? (or as most teenage guitar playing wannabes would say, Shreds?)

thanks

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rastachild

· #61 · Jun 15, 2007

The Euphor said:
Satch said early on that he liked the jazz approach, hence the song structures.

It's not original the 10th time. Vai is a n00b!

bingo. if you listen to jazz standards, you can hear the influence easily. of course, that assumes that satch only uses a certain type of structure for all of his tunes, which is a ridiculous assertion.

love him or hate him, satch has been revolutionary for instrumental guitar rock and has set the standard for a generation of guitarists. it's true that he doesn't alternate pick as much, but i've seen him do it very well live, so it is obviously a preference. like it matters anyway. the day music is broken down solely by techniques is the day we might as well just listen to computer generated music.

i don't really care, cause the robotic arm i plan to have surgically attached will allow me to pick 1000 notes per second

Drew

· #62 · Jun 18, 2007

This starts off well enough, but come on, twooos, how old are you, 15? :lol:

twooos said:
people say hes a shred head... but the only "shred" ive heard him play is probably legato, and the occasional arpeggio (mystical potato head groove thing). is there any songs/videos in which he alternate picks? (or as most teenage guitar playing wannabes would say, Shreds?)

thanks

Satch doesn't really do a lot of alternate picking, but he's certainly capable of it - there's a run in "Flying in a Blue Dream" that always catches my ear in the middle of the solo.

As to your claim that Satriani can't "shred" that you seem to gradually have gotten into because he doesn't do three note per string picking patterns and not a lot of sweeping, well, keep in mind that both of these are simply tools that help get musical ideas across - it's not like a three note per string scale pattern has some magical intrinsic quality in it where if it's not in a song it's not shred but if you add one suddenly it is - it's just a way of arranging the notes in the scale. A three note per string pattern played at 180 beats per minute isn't more "shreddy" than the same notes played in a different arrangement at the same (or, god forbid, faster) tempo simply because they're arranged three notes per string - I mean, even saying it I'm having "but... this one goes to eleven" flashbacks. :lol:

Now, since the things you're judging him on are simply tools and approaches and not true judges of musicality or playing technique, I'm going to ask you to look at his music and judge it on that alone. Satriani is flat out one of the most explosive players I've ever heard, combining jawdroppingly fast (true, mostly legato, but really good legato technique is no easier or harder than really good alternate picking, it just sounds subtly different) playing with unheard of levels of harmonic exploration in the rock world. Saying you don't think he can "shred" is kind of laughable, as he's on the short list of guitarists who can realistically be credited with the evolution of the "shred" genre.

twooos said:
and vai is not a noob! he kicks joe satriani's ass in almost everything except for ballads.

.

I'm sorry, I think I missed that memo - I wasn't aware music was an ass-kicking contest. My bad.

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twooos

Discussion Starter · #63 · Jun 18, 2007

Drew said:
This starts off well enough, but come on, twooos, how old are you, 15? :lol:

Satch doesn't really do a lot of alternate picking, but he's certainly capable of it - there's a run in "Flying in a Blue Dream" that always catches my ear in the middle of the solo.

As to your claim that Satriani can't "shred" that you seem to gradually have gotten into because he doesn't do three note per string picking patterns and not a lot of sweeping, well, keep in mind that both of these are simply tools that help get musical ideas across - it's not like a three note per string scale pattern has some magical intrinsic quality in it where if it's not in a song it's not shred but if you add one suddenly it is - it's just a way of arranging the notes in the scale. A three note per string pattern played at 180 beats per minute isn't more "shreddy" than the same notes played in a different arrangement at the same (or, god forbid, faster) tempo simply because they're arranged three notes per string - I mean, even saying it I'm having "but... this one goes to eleven" flashbacks. :lol:

Now, since the things you're judging him on are simply tools and approaches and not true judges of musicality or playing technique, I'm going to ask you to look at his music and judge it on that alone. Satriani is flat out one of the most explosive players I've ever heard, combining jawdroppingly fast (true, mostly legato, but really good legato technique is no easier or harder than really good alternate picking, it just sounds subtly different) playing with unheard of levels of harmonic exploration in the rock world. Saying you don't think he can "shred" is kind of laughable, as he's on the short list of guitarists who can realistically be credited with the evolution of the "shred" genre.

.

I'm sorry, I think I missed that memo - I wasn't aware music was an ass-kicking contest. My bad.

hmmm. yes Drew i am 15 but im not quite like other 15 year olds you commonly see.

i never said Joe can't "shred", thats just you saying it to start sh*t.

And the bit about Vai kicking Satriani's ass, is an opinion, MY opinion. You agree, you say you agree. You dont agree, say you disagree. Dont start saying some other crap about "ass-kicking contests". music isnt about that, i just said it because its my opinion, as i said before... i dont even think that made sense :lol:

well yea, i may be 15, but i think and act the same as all you other guys, except im a bit more immature

Drew

· #64 · Jun 18, 2007

twooos said:
lol i sounded like a right "noob" when i sed that about Satch's playing, but i dont care, it sucks.

twooos said:
well, back to the topic, i still havent heard him "shred"

I'm sorry. Maybe I misconstrued you, but I sort of took that to mean that you think Satriani sucks, and can't shred. Funny, I used to think reading comprehension was my strong point.

I'm not trying to "start ****" with you - frankly, I don't post here enough anymore to put the effort into a flame-fest with you. I'm just saying I don't think you entirely know what you're talking about, and explaining why. "Shredding" isn't a question of using technique A, B, C, and D all in one solo, rather it's just sort of a perogative term that's been applied to guys who play really difficult stuff really fast. Personally, I don't like the term, partly because it helps people miss the big picture (i.e - Joe can play his ass off, but he's also a hell of a songwriter), and partly because it lends creedence to that belief that you're either shredding or you're not - that it's black and white, and if you play a given lick at 159bmp it's not shredding, but 160 it is.

The age comment may be a gross generalization, but there's a certain amount of truth to the idea that generally, people don't have the experience and understanding of the world at a younger age (I guessed 15 randomly), and the maturity that comes with it, that they will when they're older. I'm not saying that at 25 you're going to love Satriani, though I suspect you might. I'm just saying you'll be able to argue your case a little more articulately and respectfully, and odds are you won't bother "ranking" guitarists against each other because you'll have realized that none of that crap matters, and the only thing that does is if you hear them you think, "man, this is pretty cool, and this is something I want to listen to." I don't think you're there yet.

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twooos

Discussion Starter · #65 · Jun 18, 2007

Drew said:
I'm sorry. Maybe I misconstrued you, but I sort of took that to mean that you think Satriani sucks, and can't shred. Funny, I used to think reading comprehension was my strong point.

I'm not trying to "start ****" with you - frankly, I don't post here enough anymore to put the effort into a flame-fest with you. I'm just saying I don't think you entirely know what you're talking about, and explaining why. "Shredding" isn't a question of using technique A, B, C, and D all in one solo, rather it's just sort of a perogative term that's been applied to guys who play really difficult stuff really fast. Personally, I don't like the term, partly because it helps people miss the big picture (i.e - Joe can play his ass off, but he's also a hell of a songwriter), and partly because it lends creedence to that belief that you're either shredding or you're not - that it's black and white, and if you play a given lick at 159bmp it's not shredding, but 160 it is.

The age comment may be a gross generalization, but there's a certain amount of truth to the idea that generally, people don't have the experience and understanding of the world at a younger age (I guessed 15 randomly), and the maturity that comes with it, that they will when they're older. I'm not saying that at 25 you're going to love Satriani, though I suspect you might. I'm just saying you'll be able to argue your case a little more articulately and respectfullyodds are you w, and on't bother "ranking" guitarists against each other because you'll have realized that none of that crap matters, and the only thing that does is if you hear them you think, "man, this is pretty cool, and this is something I want to listen to." I don't think you're there yet.

well, yeah drew thats absolutely right. im at the point where my "favorite" guitarist always changes, last month it was Guthrie Govan, this month its Steve Vai, and i was a big fan of Satch a year ago. That is quite child-ish... ithink.

"I don't post here enough anymore to put the effort into a flame-fest with you"

youve got about 4000 posts? oh sorry you said "anymore" :lol:

im learning to try not to "rank" them, and to accept the fact that they all are special at theyre own "thang" e.g. MAB's Alternate picking and Satchs legato.

i have learnt a lot just from this thread, which is pretty cool.

Drew

· #66 · Jun 18, 2007

twooos said:
well, yeah drew thats absolutely right. im at the point where my "favorite" guitarist always changes, last month it was Guthrie Govan, this month its Steve Vai, and i was a big fan of Satch a year ago. That is quite child-ish... ithink.

"I don't post here enough anymore to put the effort into a flame-fest with you"

youve got about 4000 posts? oh sorry you said "anymore" :lol:

im learning to try not to "rank" them, and to accept the fact that they all are special at theyre own "thang" e.g. MAB's Alternate picking and Satchs legato.

i have learnt a lot just from this thread, which is pretty cool.

I'm an ex-regular. :lol: I still read the boards on occasion, but I've never been a massive Vai fan and really racked up most of my post count about gear and seven string guitars, so I got sucked into Sevenstring.org and do my post-whoring over there now.

I guess that's sort of my point - I hope I'm not coming off like a condescending prick because I'd hate me if I were in your shoes if I were, lol, but one of the things that kicks so much ass about music is it doesn't matter who's better. I'm not a huge Vai fan, but I can listen to a Vai album and still take a lot away from it (and Alien Love Secrets is still on semi-regular rotation). Just because his quirkiness feels a little too contrived and weird-for-the-sake-of-weirdness doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching the bloke rip it up.

If you asked me at gunpoint who my favorite guitaris is, I'd be hard pressed to answer. I'd probably tell you Satriani if I had to because he was the first guy who I heard where I thought "oh, THAT'S what you do with a guitar," but honestly these days I've been listening to more David Gilmour/Pink Floyd than anything else, probably, and really at the end of the day Kurt Cobain was the guy who made me pick up a guitar, if you can imagine that. :lol:

Anyway, we're getting far afield. I guess my points have been shredding isn't a specific "thing" where it either is or it isn't but it's more of an approach to the guitar, and as Satriani is one of those guys who revolutionized the "shred" world, I think he fairly falls under that header. also, it doesn't matter who's "better" than whom, becauuse by the time you get that good it's as much personal taste and personal expression as anything else.

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twooos

Discussion Starter · #67 · Jun 18, 2007

Drew said:
I'm an ex-regular. :lol: I still read the boards on occasion, but I've never been a massive Vai fan and really racked up most of my post count about gear and seven string guitars, so I got sucked into Sevenstring.org and do my post-whoring over there now.

I guess that's sort of my point - I hope I'm not coming off like a condescending prick because I'd hate me if I were in your shoes if I were, lol, but one of the things that kicks so much ass about music is it doesn't matter who's better. I'm not a huge Vai fan, but I can listen to a Vai album and still take a lot away from it (and Alien Love Secrets is still on semi-regular rotation). Just because his quirkiness feels a little too contrived and weird-for-the-sake-of-weirdness doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching the bloke rip it up.

If you asked me at gunpoint who my favorite guitaris is, I'd be hard pressed to answer. I'd probably tell you Satriani if I had to because he was the first guy who I heard where I thought "oh, THAT'S what you do with a guitar," but honestly these days I've been listening to more David Gilmour/Pink Floyd than anything else, probably, and really at the end of the day Kurt Cobain was the guy who made me pick up a guitar, if you can imagine that. :lol:

Anyway, we're getting far afield. I guess my points have been shredding isn't a specific "thing" where it either is or it isn't but it's more of an approach to the guitar, and as Satriani is one of those guys who revolutionized the "shred" world, I think he fairly falls under that header. also, it doesn't matter who's "better" than whom, becauuse by the time you get that good it's as much personal taste and personal expression as anything else.

you said some really great words there. you should be a guitar preacher or sumthing :lol:

an ive been sucked into the sevenstrings forum too haha, im "twooos"

Drew

· #68 · Jun 18, 2007

Nah, it's more fun to play.

Yeah, I moderate* over there - same user name.

*internet speak for "drink a lot of beer and act important."

robbie_down_under

· #69 · Jun 19, 2007

Check out Satriani live 2006
I think its his best concert ever filmed so far.............................damn what a god!

love it when the audience just waits in anticipation during the end of songs see what he gonna come up with next.

twooos

Discussion Starter · #70 · Jun 19, 2007

robbie_down_under said:
Check out Satriani live 2006
I think its his best concert ever filmed so far.............................damn what a god!

love it when the audience just waits in anticipation during the end of songs see what he gonna come up with next.

yeah i actually downloaded it and burned it to a DVD last week...

its great

Radius

· #71 · Jun 30, 2007 (Edited)

twooos said:
Also, i bet hes really gutted that he taught Vai to play guitar, and now hes better than him.... lol.

I know the thread has moved on a lot since this post, but I have to make this point. I am not sure that this statement is true. Could you honestly say that Vai is more melodic and 'song-y' than Satch? Vai is a lot about show, and is technically immense, but his songs don't make your hairs stand on end...
"Better" is a more complicated word than it sounds, use it wisely.

EDIT: Perhaps you should just ignore this....everything's become a little too serene for this comment

twooos

Discussion Starter · #72 · Jun 30, 2007

Radius said:
I know the thread has moved on a lot since this post, but I have to make this point. I am not sure that this statement is true. Could you honestly say that Vai is more melodic and 'song-y' than Satch? Vai is a lot about show, and is technically immense, but his songs don't make your hairs stand on end...
"Better" is a more complicated word than it sounds, use it wisely.

EDIT: Perhaps you should just ignore this....everything's become a little too serene for this comment

Hes probably not more melodic, or "songy", but hes gotten more recognition over the years, and hes arguably a better technical player than him, in theory.

But ya gotta agree, dont ya think Satch feels a little, envious? or stupid, that he taught him in the first place?

But then again, if he didnt, i probably wouldnt have picked up the guitar, and Ibanez probably wouldnt have been as great as it is now.

Batchimp RG

· #73 · Jun 30, 2007

Twoos, they are 2 artists in their own right, recording material that they want to record.

It's not a sport or a competition.

JVal4

· #74 · Jul 3, 2007

I sincerely believe that Satch feels neither envy or stupid with regards to anyone else's playing. Although a ton of respect, I'm sure.

JV

HeavyMetal4Ever

· #75 · Jul 22, 2007

I can't imagine Joe Satriani feeling envious of anyones playing abilities.

If anything, he's probably proud to have been able to help Steve better his playing.

I believe that Joe and Steve are friends.

As for "shredding", I always understood it to mean playing with equal measures of fluency, control, feeling and technique.

I don't ever remember "shredding" exclusively involving alternate picking.

Rock on!

Drew

· #76 · Jul 24, 2007

HeavyMetal4Ever said:
I can't imagine Joe Satriani feeling envious of anyones playing abilities.

Eh, it wouldn't shock me if he was envious of Allan Holdsworth's legato, but coming from Joe I suspect he'd mean that as a compliment. The bloke is bloody not human, is all. :lol:

HeavyMetal4Ever

· #77 · Jul 25, 2007

Too true.

I believe Allan Holdsworth actually has six fingers per hand

Drew

· #78 · Jul 25, 2007

Ahh. No wonder I can't play like him.

shogun

· #79 · Jul 26, 2007

twooos said:
yeah legato is usually easier and better sounding than alternate picking, but i wasnt sure if he could or couldnt alternate pick. im listenin to crushin day now

thanks

easier and better? do you have a source that supports this opinion of yours

mi2tom

· #80 · Jul 26, 2007

Although I don't really like satch but I think satch is an awesome player, so what if he shreds using only legatos and blues phrasing. :roll:

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