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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Neck Relief : Difference between Low B and high E : nominal limits?

Hello,
I noticed something related to relief with my UV70p, I get smaller values in high E than low B (1st and 7th strings). E.g. When the Low B is at 0.05mm (measured as per ibanezrules site instructions, fretted both 1st and 24th fret and measured on the 10th fret), then high E is almost touching the 10th fret. When I set the low B to 0.10mm high E is somewhere the 0.05 figure.
Also I noticed that between high B and low E (2nd and 6th strings) the difference is not so dramatic, it is almost the same clearance. Also in the next frets, 2nd,3rd there is no problem. Practically the issue is only on 1st string, high E. If this spot of the fret was just a tad taller it would be ideal.

Now I have setup the guitar at silly low (as per the ibanezrules site), the playability is unparalleled with whatever I have owned and played (even my Carvin DC135), but I get slight buzz on 1st fret on G, louder buzz on 1st fret high B and even louder buzz on 1st fret high E. In fact I have to pick gently on 1st fret high E. (I know that some buzz on 1st fret 1st string is the price we pay for zero relief and very low action)
In my other Ibanez ARZ800 it is quite the opposite, more relief (also about 0.05mm difference) on high E than low E.

I was just wondering if this difference in relief between the outer strings is between the accepted tolerance. Does it imply some kind of twist ? Or maybe it was intentional?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
One thing that comes to mind to check is if the radius of the bridge saddles matches the radius of the neck.
Hey when measuring neck relief, nut and bridge go out of the equation. I was more concerned about if this difference is considered among the nominal tolerances.
 

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I would imagine it's just due to a little bit of twist and nothing intentional, but do you seriously mean .05 mm vs .1 mm? A .010 high E string is .25 mm thick. .05 mm is 1/5th the thickness of that. That seems like a pretty tight tolerance for something made of wood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would imagine it's just due to a little bit of twist and nothing intentional, but do you seriously mean .05 mm vs .1 mm? A .010 high E string is .25 mm thick. .05 mm is 1/5th the thickness of that. That seems like a pretty tight tolerance for something made of wood.
Yes, it might be due to slight twist or maybe the fretboard shape, or even more likely the frets. Yes I meant 0.05mm. That is the relief, IMO, I currently have on low B. I use feeler gauges. What I mean here is that when I insert the 0.05 gauge on Low E, at 10th fret, with the 1st and 24th frets pressed down (by capo and thumb), i see a slight movement of the string while I insert the gauge, which means the clearance must be around the 0.05mm figure. So I assume the relief is 0.05mm for low B. With the same arrangement I see that the string is almost touching the 10th fret on high E, but not really touching. Hence I assume the difference is 0.05mm.
 

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Re: Neck Relief : Difference between Low B and high E : nominal limits?

Now I have setup the guitar at silly low (as per the ibanezrules site), the playability is unparalleled with whatever I have owned and played (even my Carvin DC135), but I get slight buzz on 1st fret on G, louder buzz on 1st fret high B and even louder buzz on 1st fret high E. In fact I have to pick gently on 1st fret high E. (I know that some buzz on 1st fret 1st string is the price we pay for zero relief and very low action)
In my other Ibanez ARZ800 it is quite the opposite, more relief (also about 0.05mm difference) on high E than low E.

I was just wondering if this difference in relief between the outer strings is between the accepted tolerance. Does it imply some kind of twist ? Or maybe it was intentional?
Hey when measuring neck relief, nut and bridge go out of the equation. I was more concerned about if this difference is considered among the nominal tolerances.
I know you were mainly talking about neck relief but I said something about the radius of everything matching up because from what you described it sounded like all was acceptable for the super low action you are wanting but you were getting buzz on a few of the lower frets. You can have super low action and almost no neck relief and not have fret buzz anywhere but everything else needs to be lined up just right.

Side note I think too often people put too much stock in measuring everything trying to get stuff withing fractions of a millimeter. I used to do setups like this measuing everything to the exact millimeter and ended up over complicating it all. Now I just eyeball everything and go by what feels good/right. I still get the same low action like I did when I would measure but without all the extra hassle. In the end .05mm vs .08mm really doesn't make that much difference. When it all feels good playing numbers don't matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
^^ definitely. Just some dose of paranoia and nothing more. I was freaked out with this guitar as I had lost faith in it at some point, if you have been following the relevant threads. Maybe this leads me to get better numbers from this guitar in comparison to my kramer 210, carvin DC135 and Ibanez ARZ800 (the strat is out of the competition before the 1st round!). I was terrified I lost my money and now I feel I have one helluva guitar, that rips anything I have plaid.

Now, the only slight buzz I get is only on the 1st fret, 1st string (high E). With relief at treble side to zero, and action @24th fret to 1.15mm high E, and 1.4->1.5 low B, I cannot imagine this guitar owes anything more to me. Definitely some more metal to this very tip of the 1st fret around the 1st string would enable get the action even lower than that.

Besides according to Rich:
http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/nut.htm
It should also be noted that for rock guitars having some mild first fret buzz is acceptable as long as there's no more first fret buzz than you get fretting the second fret.
So I guess my uv70p is not an isolated case.

One thing that concerns me, is that this new Ibanez is spoiling me. When I even had the action higher, I was thinking that the tension is like spaghetti. Now I want lower and lower. And I just converted my Kramer from ernie ball beefy slinkie 11-54 back to daddario NYXL 9's. Now I must string up the strat with the heaviest gauge I can find, otherwise this ibby universe will take away all my strength!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Possible gotcha when doing the above assessment, something that gets even worse when the capo is tightly fit :
The low B string has the tendency to be lifted a little bit as pressure is applied on the string behind the fret. High not so. So the best method is to compare low E and high B. This gives almost the same clearance.
 
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