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P. Gilbert Pick angle, type, and loudness question

10K views 31 replies 19 participants last post by  MatsP 
#1 ·
Hi. I've tried so many techniques during my life. I always thought that, as opposed to what many say, pick actually has to be As Parallel as Possible to the string. Yes, you have more resistance from the string, but Less Pick Attack Noise, which translates to cleaner sound. But technique seems less effective.

Paul Gilbert says the opposite, that pick has to be at around 45 degree angle:

youtube.com/watch?v=CpJNUGHxC3M

I tried this hard and yes, there is less resistance from the string as the pick Glides aver the string, as opposed to "Cross" the string.

The main problem I have is this: When I try this technique, I get much less volume if I play at an angle than if I play 100% parallel to the string! I've read so many posts and most people agree that pick should be at an angle.

Is there anything I'm missing? How to get more volume at an angled pick?

Also, the pick type (material/thickness) seems to have a greater effect when playing at an angle than when playing flat (parallel). Any particular pick for this?

I appreciate all comments!

Regards,
Bullo
 
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#2 ·
Who cares what PG(or any other player) says,playing an instrument is a personal trip,you have to find what it's best for you.
Just try different picks and you'll find the one which is better for your fingers.
Picking comes naturally while you're playing,you don't have to force a different way just because somebody said you should do it on a different way.

Yep there's something you're missing = making music instead of picking angles.
 
#4 ·
thank you for your reply

"Yep there's something you're missing = making music instead of picking angles."....

I find that very violent. we dont even know each other. im just talking about technique here.

Apadua: yes, i find that angling the pick makes it easier, the pick glides....but at the expense of volume. the string produces less volume. yes, i can turn the volume up...that is not the point. it get muuuuuch less volume than a parallel pick.

i really li9ke P gilbert technique that is why im using it as a reference....i dont see in the videos his tone is weak whatsoever....

regards,
 
#5 ·
"Yep there's something you're missing = making music instead of picking angles."....

I find that very violent. we dont even know each other. im just talking about technique here.,
In what universe telling a guy to make music is a violent thing?
Since when making music is a violent thing?
Music is more important then picking angles,just it.
Just play your guitar and your own picking technique will surface and your own technique will always works better for your playing than whatever others players do.
 
#6 ·
Maybe your picking is too violent...;)
Seriously--Listen to Fingers. It sounds like you're trying to be too technical. Put the pick between your thumb and finger, see what feels best, and find a picking tehnique that suits YOU. I use different picking techniques for different things. Sometimes I bust out the 'ol Lynch move and not hit the strings with the plexus, but the rounded edge instead. If your picking technique results in less volume, then turn the volume on your amp up a little more.
 
#8 ·
I've had a similar struggle for years. I'm not 100% keen on what PG says. I think what 6fingers is saying, albeit abrasively, is to find your own technique. Marty Freedman has an amazing sound and his solos are brilliant, but I would never in a million years pick like him. Search his playing out on youtube to see for yourself.
My conundrum has been a balance between picking (specifically in leads) and strumming. I LOVE how the green tortex feels for soloing, but it's too hard of a pick for chording. The same is true in reverse for the tortex yellows. I wish they had more bite on solos. I've tried a number of picking techniques, including Paul's, to come to a happy medium with only limited success. I'm using Yellow Planet Waves picks now, which are like the yellow tortex only with a slightly different composition that makes them harder.
In the end you can take what others have done but it's probably best to tweak those methods and come up with your own technique that's comfortable for you.
 
#11 ·
Instead of trying to correct the 'problem' look on the positive effects you've found. You've found a way to lower your picking dynamics and alter the sound :)

Increasing the gain on the amp will lessen the volume drop.. but of course it'll sound different. Paul gilbert uses a fair bit of distortion and that would be why his tone doesn't sound weak.

Toodles, Julz.
 
#12 ·
thank you all for your comments. interestingly...

Instead of trying to correct the 'problem' look on the positive effects you've found. You've found a way to lower your picking dynamics and alter the sound
I read that some players took this to the next level so that, they do this as a 'tone control': use angle to change dynamics and volume....

regards,
 
#13 ·
I've also tried a lot of different picks too, even ones I've rejected years ago. Your playing style evolves. Sometimes it might help to revisit a pick or a style of picking.
I tried PG's signature pick too. It's pretty good but too short for my style. His right hand is probably a 1/4" closer to the strings I think than where I keep my hand when playing. My hand wants to miss the strings when I use a PG pick.
All these little differences add up. You can spend a lot of time on the ergonomics.
It can be fun trying out other players sig picks, though. It's almost like getting a tiny glimpes into their thought process.
 
#14 ·
yes, the angle does drop the volume down some, but it's a lot easier to control the dynamics I think. Play with an almost flat pick isn't wrong, Dave Mustaine does it that way. I think you need to be a little heavier with you hand to diminish the volume drop, but maybe that's just controlling dynamics again.
 
#16 ·
personally i pick pretty parallel , i just raise my fingers so that the pick hits the string at its very edge .. so i still get the sharp sound and the dynamic/volume from paralel picking , but have less noise ... takes some time to get used to it though ...

EDIT : but as always , sound is choice :)
 
#21 ·
I think I also have problems with picking angle or picking in general. I seem to have a tendency to have the pick more parallel to the string and when I try to do alternate picking, I can never get a steady pulse because of string getting caught up or not jumping properly into the next strings.

Even when I force myself to angle it doesn't come out right.

I've lost so many hours now trying to improve my playing but it just doesn't work. I don't know how many more hours I need to spend to get an accurate playing with accurate synchronization.... I feel like I'm losing motivation to play anymore. You have all these cool youtube guitar competitions going on, you have some cool ideas but you can't get them down technically. And then you spend like 1 month to get it 80% and some youtube wizz kid does all that and more in a matter of 1-2 days...

geez rambling on too much now :)
 
#22 ·
I'm with you on this one. When I angle a pick like Dunlop Tortex Standard green (0.88 mm) with a rounded tip, the tone gets weak and the attack becomes rather undefined and mushy. I don't know whether it will get better with a thinner pick like Tortex orange (0.60 mm) or yellow (0.73 mm), anyway, I just ordered a bunch. I also use Jazz III stiffo (the black one), and thanks to its sharper tip, the attack and volume will be fine even when angling the pick. The mushiness and loss of volume will of course be most noticeable when using a clean, uncompressed sound without distortion, like when playing Jazz.
 
#23 ·
By the way, I've also ordered Tortex TIII, which is supposed to have a similar tip to Jazz III. At Paul Gilbert's gear page there is an image of an orange Tortex TIII, which leads me to believe this is what he currently uses. Perhaps he has realized the benefits of using a sharper tip...
 
#25 ·
Paul has mentioned that the faster he picks, the lighter his touch is. The slower he picks, the more heavy handed he is. I asked him about my picking style b/c I hold my pick the opposite angle as he does, and he says if it works for me, to keep doing it the way I'm doing it ( I've been playing 25+ years mind you) even though he teaches new comers to try to adopt his way of holding the pick if possible. Here is what PG has to say about his pick history on the Artistworks forum:

I've gone through many different pick styles in my life so far. My very first pick with the tailwing of a model airplane. I used grey nylon picks for a while (I can't remember what brand it was so long ago.) In Racer X, I went heavier and used a variety of 1.14mm picks. In Mr. Big, I used custom Ibanez picks that we're a more pointy shape. And for the last decade or so, I've been using the Tortex .60mm picks. I like the thin Tortex pick that I use now because of the wide variety of tones that I can get from it. Heavier and pointier picks can be really good for certain things (especially fast picking on the higher strings.) But I find myself wanting the tonal variety that the .60mm Tortex offers. And those pick scratches? Unbeatable!
 
#26 ·
Yes, 0.60 Tortex is really nice for that stuff, and it has a nice rough mid-rangey sound when using lots of distortion. I do prefer the very defined attack of Jazz III for lead work though. That's why I've ordered the TIII, in the hope that it will have both the sound of the standard 0.60 but with the attack of Jazz III.
 
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