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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
is almost as if he saw she can shred like Joe Satriani/Gilbert and suddenly she has no melody or feel. I found it patronizing and condescending. She is a prodigy that must be protected at all cost

 

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She's like 1000 10 year old Chinese girls that can play the lead violin concerto's, but have no feel.
Satriani's strength has always been melody and feel. Becks strength has always been melody and feel. You can go thru the list of great guitar players from Vaughn to Yngwie and all of them will have that in common.
She has no melody or feel, maybe it's the best advice she's been given yet, unless she just wants to be a shredder without either. More power to her then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
She's like 1000 10 year old Chinese girls that can play the lead violin concerto's, but have no feel.
Satriani's strength has always been melody and feel. Becks strength has always been melody and feel. You can go thru the list of great guitar players from Vaughn to Yngwie and all of them will have that in common.
She has no melody or feel, maybe it's the best advice she's been given yet, unless she just wants to be a shredder without either. More power to her then.
She is still too young, melody and feel come with maturity, life experiences, and struggles. She is at that age where she is making covers, polishing her technique and starting to make her own music. I doubt she'll be stuck in this shred phase forever. I doubt Satriani was melodic at 13 years of age

Here is a video of her playing one of her songs, this is melodic imo

 

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She is still too young, melody and feel come with maturity, life experiences, and struggles. She is at that age where she is making covers, polishing her technique and starting to make her own music. I doubt she'll be stuck in this shred phase forever. I doubt Satriani was melodic at 13 years of age

Here is a video of her playing one of her songs, this is melodic imo

The song itself was pretty good, decent melody... unitl the solo section. Years ago I heard someone say that if you can't sing it or hum it, you're just showing off. I don't necessarily agree with that 100%, but for the average music listener I think it holds true to some degree. Concerning instrumental guitarists, Satriani is the master of melody to me. Even he goes off the deep end quite a bit, but does a pretty good job of keeping the flashy stuff melodic when possible.
 

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Not sure where Paul is criticising her? I heard him giving her praise and some good advice/guidance/wisdom. She can't shred like Gilbert either, that guy is a complete machine and there is lightyears of difference between these players, as you would expect there to be given her age and given his success. When it comes to matters of feel, unfortunately most "shredders" who latch on to that path early on without the kinda guidance that Paul is trying to instil end up as soulless fretboard wankers who have poor bending/vibrato technique and have weak timing when they are playing slowly or around any kind of groove because they didn't work on those elements.

It's the same with drummers who are all chops and tricks but never learn to really groove in the pocket, they can never drive a song forward properly, and can never just live in a space with their playing, because the empty space is unfamiliar trouble territory. You have the same with some guitarists, they aren't comfortable in those empty spaces, they can't groove because their timing development has been limited.

Satriani's groove is amazing though, masterful at times. When you only focus on the flurry of notes you really miss where his genius is, and the gulf between the average shredder and someone like Satch who is a more rounded musician, I mean he's not really a "shredder" in the traditional sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not sure where Paul is criticising her? I heard him giving her praise and some good advice/guidance/wisdom. She can't shred like Gilbert either, that guy is a complete machine and there is lightyears of difference between these players, as you would expect there to be given her age and given his success. When it comes to matters of feel, unfortunately most "shredders" who latch on to that path early on without the kinda guidance that Paul is trying to instil end up as soulless fretboard wankers who have poor bending/vibrato technique and have weak timing when they are playing slowly or around any kind of groove because they didn't work on those elements.

It's the same with drummers who are all chops and tricks but never learn to really groove in the pocket, they can never drive a song forward properly, and can never just live in a space with their playing, because the empty space is unfamiliar trouble territory. You have the same with some guitarists, they aren't comfortable in those empty spaces, they can't groove because their timing development has been limited.

Satriani's groove is amazing though, masterful at times. When you only focus on the flurry of notes you really miss where his genius is, and the gulf between the average shredder and someone like Satch who is a more rounded musician, I mean he's not really a "shredder" in the traditional sense.
I'd say she is closer to the level of Satriani than Paul. One theory says that Gilbert is so good at alternate picking because when he started playing guitar, he played with only upstrokes for 2 years because he didn't know any better lol not sure how believable that is, but considering that upstrokes is most people's weakness

He has this exercise with only upstrokes. What I noticed and other people as well is that he doesn't do the typical pick slanting to switch strings but mutes one string and hits both, especially on his most popular exercise and he probably does that for all his alternate picking licks and only does it when play it fast but not slow

 

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Her playing is not memorable and I agree has no feel or soul. It's technically great, but I can't see her becoming anything special.
No disrespect, as people have said on this thread only a few can attain that level.
 

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CRACKS KNUCKLES. Buckle up lads and ladettes, some of you will ... GASP DISAGREEE! [also, please read everything before you start loading the shotgun...]

Here goes -> The Beatles are outlandishly overrated and merely fit in a right time right place scenario. They wrote a handful of good songs, but most of it is honestly marginal 4 chord generic filler music number 7. Early Pink Floyd, most of the Eagles, and a whole lot of the 80s was just straight garbage. Take on me is absolute garbage; I have no idea why its popular. Hendrix, SRV, Dimebag Darrell, and oh yea the boy wonder randy rhoads died at a peak and never really got a chance to actually burn out like they probably would have. [Not making fun of tragic deaths by any means, I am simply speaking objectively of their untimely demises being at a peak of their careers]. The whole 27 club probably fits in that as well. Id rather get a vasectomy than listen to a holdsworth album. Frank Gambale and Guthrie Govan are repetitive and boring once you get passed the initial "OOH" phase. Alex Lifeson is EASILY the most under-rated guitarist of all time; and thats coming from a guy that thinks early rush is pretty "meh".

This entire mini rant is not a meme, its not a joke. I am being dead serious. Pause that feeling for a moment I implore you... Musical proclivities are quite possibly one of the most subjective and personal feelings one can possibly have. It is absolutely no ones right to tell me how I should or shouldnt feel about ... a certain type of music you may enjoy. Its absolutely everyones right to completely disagree with me; and I promise, I am down for that discussion (if it stays objective and cool ...). I love "that" discussion. It opens minds and transforms the situation. I genuinely admire and respect the success levels and capabilities of these musicians and I VERY MUCH DO appreciate the impact these artist had on people that I care about. Thanks Mr Hendrix for satriani and vai; though not too wild about the rampant drug peddling, women beating, and sure wish people would stop lauding him as a war hero (he was a fridge technician that got kicked out for being a scum bag). Thank you beatles for Paul Gilbert! Etc etc. I am aware of their impact; I just dont like their stuff lmao. "Criticizing" =/= "Attack them personally". People may take it personally (artists being disliked for what they are putting out hurts) but its genuinely ok to dislike something on your own merits. The only time I'd consider it inappropriate is bandwagoning behavior. Sorry man, I just dont like the Beatles lol. I dont have to "get it"; who cares if I dont? Again, Im down to discuss and debate this with a calm head on both sides very willingly. If PRS doesnt like Lisa X; and doesnt like her playing... sorry to say it but thats his subjective opinion and its his alone to make. IF we start debasing into "thats not music"; well I have some choice words that Im probably not allowed to say on a forum such as this lol.

Taking a break from that bit... man the whole guitar ego thing needs some self awareness; like across the entire spectrum of guitarists. There is definitely a weird paradigm around "skill" and "talent". Technical virtuosity is abso-freaking-lutely not anything approaching musicality. Some people have just a clear stronger ability to play things at a much higher technical level than others. Either people cant parse the difference; which may be honestly a thing!; or they are compartmentalizing things wantonly [i.e. "once you get past a certain point, its all the same"]. Satriani is one of the greatest of the greats. No one will every deny that. Hendrix is probably the most influential guitarist of all time; again probably wont get too much recoil from that. Paul Gilbert and Steve Vai easily have more technical ability (quite likely just due to preference and path to how they learned and played from the start!) than satriani. Hendrix's rhythm ability was quite strong, however his technical proficiency got lost in the 80s. Absolutely no contest. KIDS TODAY can quite literally "out play" mr hendrix from a technical perspective. "Musicality" is making stuff people want to hear. Wanking around at mach 10 is cool, and its extremely technical! Its an honest to god talent. But so is song writing... so is rhythm and feel.... so is being in the pocket... so is your ear. All these things add up to a total package. The candid truth is Lisa X is a talented young girl who is being marginalized for being a "girl that plays guitar pretty well". I never hear a single word about "what a great guitarist played this!" Theres always an asterisk when things like this come up. Its doesnt take away her ability to play and practice; and I GENUINELY hope she gets to a point where she can stand on her feet, but for now shes a circus side show act being dragged along for the sheer novelty of it. If people are comparing her to Gilbert or Vai in "virtuosity' terminology ... phew lads cmon....

Dont believe me? Whats the last Lisa X album you put on lately?
 

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Also, please know that I respect YOUR opinions and what you like and enjoy. My mostly bombastic post here is not an affront to anyone personally; and I dont harbor any ill will to anyone/band that has had any modicum of a successful career in "making stuff people want to hear" because clearly they did just that. Thats the beauty of all music honestly.
 

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I dig what you are saying and agree on a lot of it... Most shredder guitartsts I can only handle in small quantities. Especially agree on Alex Lifeson! Who else could step in a add rhythm and lead over their songs?

Extra points to you for omitting EVH from the bad list too... His originality, songwriting, rhythm, lead when added to gether puts him in a very unique category... on par with Hendrix as "most infuential". Floyd (about 3 albums) and Eagles (early stuff + Joe walsh era) I would disagree on for pure original song writing value and overall listening quality. Another unique and 5-star band would be Steely Dan, they are top of my list (when I'm in the mood for it).

Interesting take on the subject!! Carry on... :cool:
 

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Interesting take on the subject!! Carry on... :cool:
Want to address this one first ->
Its a supreme hot take, and Im under no delusions about that lol. People get too scared to have their own opinions based on reprisal from social paradigms existing that "YOU MUST LIKE THE BEATLES. DONT YOU KNOW HOW INFLUENTIAL THEY ARE?" I get far more enjoyment out of listening to Justin Bieber than old Pink Floyd... and when I tell people that; I can almost FEEL The aneurysms develop as they wait for a "just kidding" that never comes. Then you get to listen [insert zealous fan of [[insert genre here]] berate something they dont enjoy as "thats not real music". The absolute ego and hubris required to make that comment astounds even me lmao. Dont really get why people get so rabid dog about this stuff; me disliking what I like, but enjoying what I do is no way an invalidation of what you (colloquial term here) enjoy or dislike haha.
 

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I dig what you are saying and agree on a lot of it... Most shredder guitartsts I can only handle in small quantities. Especially agree on Alex Lifeson! Who else could step in a add rhythm and lead over their songs?

Extra points to you for omitting EVH from the bad list too... His originality, songwriting, rhythm, lead when added to gether puts him in a very unique category... on par with Hendrix as "most infuential". Floyd (about 3 albums) and Eagles (early stuff + Joe walsh era) I would disagree on for pure original song writing value and overall listening quality. Another unique and 5-star band would be Steely Dan, they are top of my list (when I'm in the mood for it).
My goodness lol. I've recently had two kitties pass. The first one was Eddie Van Halen. The second was Paul Gilbert. Dead serious lol. EVH is easily the most influential and inspiring player for me as a guitarist, my favorite til I die. Number 2 is easily Satriani. #3 depends on the day I guess lol. No shot is Eddie as technical proficient as Paul Gilbert (HAVE YOU SEEN HIS PINKY? The man is LITERALLYYYYYYYY built different here lol). Vai's kinda right there honestly. Theres certainly flavors of virtuosity here; Gilbert and Vai are just prescient ones for this particular conversation in this particular venue. I absolutely acknowledge Guthrie, Gambale, Holdsworth being unreal levels of talented in terms of technical proficiency. Again, I'd put all three of them above EVH in terms of of that. Am I the be all, end all decider of "what counts"? No, but there are some objective merits that can be analyzed to make this more reasonable than it seems. Hell, clean articulated raw speed is pretty indicative here. "Better" Is subjective. "More influential" is definitely more on the objective side of things. So is "proficiency and ability"; at least displayed ability. Tom Morello comes to mind with that one...

I ironically really enjoy gilmour era pink floyd immensely. Division Bell and AMLOR are two of my favorite albums of all time. I just dont like the stuff with roger waters for the most part; some good songs here and there; but the whole vibe of it feels more "of the era" and derisive than some transformative experience that I guess I never had with them lol. Funnily enough, I also enjoy Roger's solo stuff more than his pink floyd stuff haha. The eagles one I mentioned specifically because of a conversation I had with a friend the other day; I think the eagles apart are WAY better than they ever were as a band haha.. Don Henley is definitely one of my favorite artists; but not in the eagles. With both of those, I absolutely understand the importance and history of The Wall and Hotel California. Steely Dan just isnt my cup of tea really. That said, your agreement with my quip on lifeson and your clear gravitation towards EVH means we also definitely have some overlap on this weird venn diagram where we share sentiments as well.

I think at the end of the day; theres some nostalgia factor going into a lot of these things. I grew up with everything I had access to PLUS everything you got to enjoy (Im taking a leap and gonna guess youre a little bit older than myself here); so I had more options, right? More formats for listening as technology grew, more options, more accessibility. We develop strong, emotional attachments to bands that we listened to growing up, being there for the good times; maybe more importantly being there for the bad ones. In my opinion, critiquing music as a whole should be explored and developed. Discussed and expanded upon, but more often then not it turns into a bunch of sensitive monkeys throwing their poo at each other because they think their enjoyment of something is invalidated by anothers disinterest in it lol. Hard line to walk for sure I guess. Conversation has to start somewhere I guess lol
 

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Don't really get why people get so rabid dog about this stuff; me disliking what I like, but enjoying what I do is in no way an invalidation of what you (colloquial term here) enjoy or dislike haha.
You kind of wrote a lot so I'll just focus on the ideas in the sentence above. In my experience, people take the music they like personally and look for validation from other people at some point in their lives. When a person does this, they are making themselves vulnerable. If they do not receive the validation they are looking for while in this vulnerable state, it can feel like they are being personally rejected, which hurts. People will react uniquely but accordingly to what I'll call their experience and wisdom which includes not reacting at all.
 

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My goodness lol. I've recently had two kitties pass. The first one was Eddie Van Halen. The second was Paul Gilbert. Dead serious lol. EVH is easily the most influential and inspiring player for me as a guitarist, my favorite til I die. Number 2 is easily Satriani. #3 depends on the day I guess lol. No shot is Eddie as technical proficient as Paul Gilbert (HAVE YOU SEEN HIS PINKY? The man is LITERALLYYYYYYYY built different here lol). Vai's kinda right there honestly. Theres certainly flavors of virtuosity here; Gilbert and Vai are just prescient ones for this particular conversation in this particular venue. I absolutely acknowledge Guthrie, Gambale, Holdsworth being unreal levels of talented in terms of technical proficiency. Again, I'd put all three of them above EVH in terms of of that. Am I the be all, end all decider of "what counts"? No, but there are some objective merits that can be analyzed to make this more reasonable than it seems. Hell, clean articulated raw speed is pretty indicative here. "Better" Is subjective. "More influential" is definitely more on the objective side of things. So is "proficiency and ability"; at least displayed ability. Tom Morello comes to mind with that one...

I ironically really enjoy gilmour era pink floyd immensely. Division Bell and AMLOR are two of my favorite albums of all time. I just dont like the stuff with roger waters for the most part; some good songs here and there; but the whole vibe of it feels more "of the era" and derisive than some transformative experience that I guess I never had with them lol. Funnily enough, I also enjoy Roger's solo stuff more than his pink floyd stuff haha. The eagles one I mentioned specifically because of a conversation I had with a friend the other day; I think the eagles apart are WAY better than they ever were as a band haha.. Don Henley is definitely one of my favorite artists; but not in the eagles. With both of those, I absolutely understand the importance and history of The Wall and Hotel California. Steely Dan just isnt my cup of tea really. That said, your agreement with my quip on lifeson and your clear gravitation towards EVH means we also definitely have some overlap on this weird venn diagram where we share sentiments as well.

I think at the end of the day; theres some nostalgia factor going into a lot of these things. I grew up with everything I had access to PLUS everything you got to enjoy (Im taking a leap and gonna guess youre a little bit older than myself here); so I had more options, right? More formats for listening as technology grew, more options, more accessibility. We develop strong, emotional attachments to bands that we listened to growing up, being there for the good times; maybe more importantly being there for the bad ones. In my opinion, critiquing music as a whole should be explored and developed. Discussed and expanded upon, but more often then not it turns into a bunch of sensitive monkeys throwing their poo at each other because they think their enjoyment of something is invalidated by anothers disinterest in it lol. Hard line to walk for sure I guess. Conversation has to start somewhere I guess lol
I'm probably a bit older, judging by the era's of interest... (53 y/o). I'm right there with you as far as EVH and Satriani being 1 and 2, at least for me... but on any given day I can really get into other guys as well. Vai is fantastic... blows my mind with awesome guitar work and then the next song is like breaking glass and I have to skip it! Lots of great guitarists like Gilbert, Govan, Nick Johnston (love the Atomic Mind album), etc... There are so many factors other than technical proficiency and speed though... Kind of like lead singers, some can't sing very well at all, but somehow they make it work and end up being legendary. Bon Scott comes to mind, lol... Billy Gibbons is a favorite for this reason, he can say so much with just a few notes... just has that "something" ability to express himself musically and I dig it. Of the "real popular guitar gurus" I like Satriani the most, for his overall musical knowledge. He was more fiery and inventive when younger, but now I appreciate the maturity and restraint and his ability to know what the song needs. For just raw fun guitar work though, EVH takes the cake... Bluesy, swingy, technical, poppy, whatever... He could just somehow rock it!
 
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