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Discussion Starter #1
Hello forum,

I just purchased an Ibanez Jem Junior, I love everything about it except the floyd rose tremolo with the raised micro tuners that are hindering my playing.

I want to purchase a low pro edge and replace the Floyd Rose with it, I hope this will solve the problem of the micro tuners interfering with my playing.

I found it VERY hard to find, but have come across this site who miraculously seem to have them for sale.


Does anyone out there have any experience with this store? or any insights they might want to share?

I live in Canada, and am willing to pay the $500.00 Canadian it will probably take to get this item over here and onto my guitar.

I want to make sure this is a solid solution to the Floyd Rose raised MicroTuners that are very annoying to have to play around, I want to do some good old fashioned palm-muting again, and I just can't on this guitar. But I do love everything else about it.

Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, or insights.

Cheers.
 

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Thoman is like the GC of Germany but I doubt they will sell it to you, they abide by their territory rules. The EU has cheaper prices than the US though, the US tends to gouge on parts pricing which I've been complaining about for a decade.
 

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I bought a Lo-Pro replacement from them for my 7V last year, they are probably the biggest retailer in Europe for music gear and I've bought tonnes from them over the years. Have you checked if the Lo-Pro will actually fit the Jem JR? I say that because they aren't all universally swappable.
Thoman is like the GC of Germany but I doubt they will sell it to you, they abide by their territory rules. The EU has cheaper prices than the US though, the US tends to gouge on parts pricing which I've been complaining about for a decade.
I mean that hasn't been my experience, I paid £240 for my Lo-Pro and you have it listed on your site for $360, while that's a fair price increase from what it was a year or two ago that translates to £230 here (not sure how tax figures into it, but in the past it looked almost cheaper to import an Edge from the US than buying it here). Thomann at the moment is selling the Lo-Pro for £199 (Edit : that's before tax, forgot about brexit) and Thomann was already far and away the cheapest when I bought mine at £240 (most places right now sell them for £279).

Floyd Rose is worse, an OFR on the US store is listed at $206 while here you never see them for less than £300, they are usually between £320-360 (Imagine forking out $500 for a Floyd Rose trem). Schaller version of the trem is cheap here though, as is the Gotoh 1996. Pickups are more expensive here by quite a bit, and guitars in general are way more expensive.
 

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They keep jacking the prices on everything up here I have to so carefully go over every invoice against cost in my spread sheet because if I don't I found several parts I was actually loosing money on selling. The US is a rip off market for parts, IMO Japan considers their biggest markets their bread and butter and they're going to pull as much cash out of them as possible. A couple months ago they raised the price of an arm holder nut and spring from $4 each to $15 each. Tell me how they justify that. It doubled the cost of the full holder assembly discounted, from $24 to $48. [which in all honestly that rip off on ebay pythespy was selling them for $48 a decade ago]
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I bought a Lo-Pro replacement from them for my 7V last year, they are probably the biggest retailer in Europe for music gear and I've bought tonnes from them over the years. Have you checked if the Lo-Pro will actually fit the Jem JR? I say that because they aren't all universally swappable.

I mean that hasn't been my experience, I paid £240 for my Lo-Pro and you have it listed on your site for $360, while that's a fair price increase from what it was a year or two ago that translates to £230 here (not sure how tax figures into it, but in the past it looked almost cheaper to import an Edge from the US than buying it here). Thomann at the moment is selling the Lo-Pro for £199 (Edit : that's before tax, forgot about brexit) and Thomann was already far and away the cheapest when I bought mine at £240 (most places right now sell them for £279).

Floyd Rose is worse, an OFR on the US store is listed at $206 while here you never see them for less than £300, they are usually between £320-360 (Imagine forking out $500 for a Floyd Rose trem). Schaller version of the trem is cheap here though, as is the Gotoh 1996. Pickups are more expensive here by quite a bit, and guitars in general are way more expensive.
Hello BigBazz,

I've had to learn a lot quite quickly to understand what is the proper tremolo to drop into my guitar.

This is my exact guitar - Ibanez parts catalog

This was pointed out to me by Rich. He also pointed out that I have a Cosmo bridge and the following helpful pieces of information.

"The only trem lower profile that won’t require major surgery is discontinued, the edge pro. The lowest profile trem they ever made, but plays stiffer because of it.
The edge zero’s will require major surgery to install but are very lo profile also.
The lo pro was made to get rid of the whale tail of the original edge, but as you can see it’s not flat, it still angles up out of the guitar. It’s just much lower."

This is what I'm going for - a much lower tailpiece, the raised micro tuners on the current bar are driving me bonkers.

Here is a video describing the various iterations of the Ibanez Whammy Bars.


Here's a chart from that video.

16930


Hope this helps some folks.

Major point being, you just can't drop whatever Ibanez bar you desire into your guitar, unless you're willing to carve up your guitar, which will cost how much? on top of the cost of the bar? Might as well just buy the guitar you want with the bar you want already on it, which I wish I had done. Oh well, live and learn. : )
 

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He knows some but is not that familiar with the bridges. He says the Edge Pro 2 is better than the Edge 3, they are just a horse of a different color, the EP2 being lower profile, but he says it has better knife edges. The EP2 and ED3 have the exact same knife edge plate and block. He also says the screws on the back of the block to adjust arm tension bite into the bar when actually there is a large bushing inside the block the screws press against to adjust tension, which is a major PITA as you have to completely disassemble the trem to get the bushing out of the block and replace it, and the reason the screws bite into the bar is because they've dug thru and split the bushing. These trems have a bad rap for a reason, the knife edge plate is soft as warm butter and I've pulled them out of brand new guitars and already had divots in them from just sitting in the guitar.

The Edge Pro was their lowest profile trem, was a great bridge but did play stiffer than a Lo Pro, which plays stiffer than an Edge. The lack of locking studs led to some bridges have serious tuning instability after pullups which is why I developed the locking stud mod which solves the problem. The early EP's were horrible as any new release usually is until they work the bugs out [just as the early Edge Zero and 2 were], the saddle molds were all over the place in height so the bridge radius was all over the place and rarely good. The saddles also broke often as the early pot metal batches were inferior. So the EP got a bad rap from the beginning which it deserved, it was released before it was fully sorted out. The later sorted out versions are excellent bridges and are the lowest profile bridges Ibanez ever made. They are now about sold out and parts will be the next to start to sell out making their longevity questionable as you'll have to buy used parts or used bridges to repair your existing bridge.

The return to the Edge and Lo Pro came with upgrades. The string lock blocks are now cast instead of extruded so they won't mushroom and get stuck in your saddles after years of tightening strings, and, the knife edges are cast out of the hardest compound material they've ever used for knives, and are the same compound that are in the Edge Zero and Edge Zero 2. [I am not positive this came in the original 2010 reissue of these bridges or if it was changed during the run and just noticed it when the parts I was selling visibly changed, parts always lagging behind production as they sell off remaining stock. I would have to inspect an original 2010 bridge to know] The Edge Zero 2, now finally sorted, is the best budget bridge Ibanez has ever used on their mid tier lines. It has the hardest knife edges and studs and has locking studs, but the Edge Zero and Zero Resistance family all share a wider stud spacing making them a difficult swap into any standard Floyd Rose stud spacing guitar., and most are setup for the Zero Point System so the block only has the 2 holes for the 2 ZPS springs. The non ZPS version of the Edge Zero and EZ2, used on the JEM and UV Premiums have a regular 3 spring block and claw setup, and this block can be transferred into a ZPS EZ, the holes are already drilled in the baseplate to accept either block.

Not discussed was the ZR he probably did in another video. The ZR and EZ can be swapped between each other and the ZR baseplate also has the same 5 holes to accept either the ZPS block or the 3 spring and claw setup block. The ZR without ZPS bar installed is very spongy feeling, this is because it revolves on ball bearings around the break point of the strings off the saddle. For this reason the strings do not rise and fall like a regular FR bridge but stay at the same height over the frets. The ZR had a bad rap for peculiar sustain properties, ie. too short but testing against an RG will reveal the length of sustain on any given string or fret will be comparable, but the difference being you get decay with most every bridge, the ZR does not decay, you get pretty much full output and then the note dies within a second. As I said, very peculiar sustain properties. Some have ripped them apart and say if you pull the rubber pad out from under the back side of the tuners it improves. I'm not sure what improves, the sustain is already as long, maybe it decays. I've never tried to completely disassemble a ZR because like replacing a bushing in an Edge 3 it's a PITA and these reports only surfaced after they discontinued using the bridges in guitars. The ZR comes in 4 variants, the V1 [Version 1] which has a screw in trem bar that screws into a plastic cup, that screwed onto the bottom of a cast arm holder tube. This cast tube was always a problem as it easily broke, and to complicate matters something in the system was a patent violation [never disclosed exactly what] so it was discontinued and replaced with the V1.1 holder system, which is what the bridge is called, ZR V1.1. This uses a machined holder tube and the V1.1 bar has the bushing on the bar under the torque cap where on the V1 the bushing was on the top of the holder tube with a torque cap, the bar with just threads to screw into the cup. The third version is what was used on Japanese production, the ZR2. The ZR2 included an intonation bolt screwed into the bass side of the baseplate [like the Edge Zero, the EZ2 does not] but the inclusion of this intonation bolt means they made the rout very long so dumb people wouldn't be fiddling with their intonation and push down on the back of the trem letting the bolt damage the guitar and or trem. The rout I've always seen as ridiculous, but it is what it is. The ZR2 has the arm holder of the Edge Zero which is machined and uses a nut on the top of the baseplate to secure, uses the same bushing as the EZ, and ZRV1 under a torque cap. This is a push in bar system and the bar is the same as an Edge bar except it doesn't have any bushings on it. You can use an Edge bar in these trems if your bushings are like mine, completely worn down. A curious not is the EZ2 and ZR V1.1 share the same type holder system with slightly different dimensions [length] so you can use an EZ2 bar in a ZR V1.1 but the V1.1 bar is just a little too long for the EZ2 holder. The last version of the ZR was an attempt at a vintage style trem with modern functionality but since the strings did not lock into the saddles but just slipped into the bottom of the block like a vintage trem, so the tuning stability was not ideal. A very odd system and very short lived.
 

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I started writing to correct the video and then just figured i'd make a page out of it for trem identification for parts customers, you have no idea how many times i've heard i have an edge 2. It'll be 2 years before i take all the pictures to make it complete though :lol:
 

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Looks like the curse filter still works, even though there are no PM's anymore or notice of "conversations" (n):censored:
 

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Back to the top: i highly can recommend Thomann. I bought so many things by Thomann in the last 30 years and i never had any problems. Excellent service !
Cheers !
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
He knows some but is not that familiar with the bridges. He says the Edge Pro 2 is better than the Edge 3, they are just a horse of a different color, the EP2 being lower profile, but he says it has better knife edges. The EP2 and ED3 have the exact same knife edge plate and block. He also says the screws on the back of the block to adjust arm tension bite into the bar when actually there is a large bushing inside the block the screws press against to adjust tension, which is a major PITA as you have to completely disassemble the trem to get the bushing out of the block and replace it, and the reason the screws bite into the bar is because they've dug thru and split the bushing. These trems have a bad rap for a reason, the knife edge plate is soft as warm butter and I've pulled them out of brand new guitars and already had divots in them from just sitting in the guitar.

The Edge Pro was their lowest profile trem, was a great bridge but did play stiffer than a Lo Pro, which plays stiffer than an Edge. The lack of locking studs led to some bridges have serious tuning instability after pullups which is why I developed the locking stud mod which solves the problem. The early EP's were horrible as any new release usually is until they work the bugs out [just as the early Edge Zero and 2 were], the saddle molds were all over the place in height so the bridge radius was all over the place and rarely good. The saddles also broke often as the early pot metal batches were inferior. So the EP got a bad rap from the beginning which it deserved, it was released before it was fully sorted out. The later sorted out versions are excellent bridges and are the lowest profile bridges Ibanez ever made. They are now about sold out and parts will be the next to start to sell out making their longevity questionable as you'll have to buy used parts or used bridges to repair your existing bridge.

The return to the Edge and Lo Pro came with upgrades. The string lock blocks are now cast instead of extruded so they won't mushroom and get stuck in your saddles after years of tightening strings, and, the knife edges are cast out of the hardest compound material they've ever used for knives, and are the same compound that are in the Edge Zero and Edge Zero 2. [I am not positive this came in the original 2010 reissue of these bridges or if it was changed during the run and just noticed it when the parts I was selling visibly changed, parts always lagging behind production as they sell off remaining stock. I would have to inspect an original 2010 bridge to know] The Edge Zero 2, now finally sorted, is the best budget bridge Ibanez has ever used on their mid tier lines. It has the hardest knife edges and studs and has locking studs, but the Edge Zero and Zero Resistance family all share a wider stud spacing making them a difficult swap into any standard Floyd Rose stud spacing guitar., and most are setup for the Zero Point System so the block only has the 2 holes for the 2 ZPS springs. The non ZPS version of the Edge Zero and EZ2, used on the JEM and UV Premiums have a regular 3 spring block and claw setup, and this block can be transferred into a ZPS EZ, the holes are already drilled in the baseplate to accept either block.

Not discussed was the ZR he probably did in another video. The ZR and EZ can be swapped between each other and the ZR baseplate also has the same 5 holes to accept either the ZPS block or the 3 spring and claw setup block. The ZR without ZPS bar installed is very spongy feeling, this is because it revolves on ball bearings around the break point of the strings off the saddle. For this reason the strings do not rise and fall like a regular FR bridge but stay at the same height over the frets. The ZR had a bad rap for peculiar sustain properties, ie. too short but testing against an RG will reveal the length of sustain on any given string or fret will be comparable, but the difference being you get decay with most every bridge, the ZR does not decay, you get pretty much full output and then the note dies within a second. As I said, very peculiar sustain properties. Some have ripped them apart and say if you pull the rubber pad out from under the back side of the tuners it improves. I'm not sure what improves, the sustain is already as long, maybe it decays. I've never tried to completely disassemble a ZR because like replacing a bushing in an Edge 3 it's a PITA and these reports only surfaced after they discontinued using the bridges in guitars. The ZR comes in 4 variants, the V1 [Version 1] which has a screw in trem bar that screws into a plastic cup, that screwed onto the bottom of a cast arm holder tube. This cast tube was always a problem as it easily broke, and to complicate matters something in the system was a patent violation [never disclosed exactly what] so it was discontinued and replaced with the V1.1 holder system, which is what the bridge is called, ZR V1.1. This uses a machined holder tube and the V1.1 bar has the bushing on the bar under the torque cap where on the V1 the bushing was on the top of the holder tube with a torque cap, the bar with just threads to screw into the cup. The third version is what was used on Japanese production, the ZR2. The ZR2 included an intonation bolt screwed into the bass side of the baseplate [like the Edge Zero, the EZ2 does not] but the inclusion of this intonation bolt means they made the rout very long so dumb people wouldn't be fiddling with their intonation and push down on the back of the trem letting the bolt damage the guitar and or trem. The rout I've always seen as ridiculous, but it is what it is. The ZR2 has the arm holder of the Edge Zero which is machined and uses a nut on the top of the baseplate to secure, uses the same bushing as the EZ, and ZRV1 under a torque cap. This is a push in bar system and the bar is the same as an Edge bar except it doesn't have any bushings on it. You can use an Edge bar in these trems if your bushings are like mine, completely worn down. A curious not is the EZ2 and ZR V1.1 share the same type holder system with slightly different dimensions [length] so you can use an EZ2 bar in a ZR V1.1 but the V1.1 bar is just a little too long for the EZ2 holder. The last version of the ZR was an attempt at a vintage style trem with modern functionality but since the strings did not lock into the saddles but just slipped into the bottom of the block like a vintage trem, so the tuning stability was not ideal. A very odd system and very short lived.

This is great information, thanks for sharing.

YOU should make a video about the Ibanez Trems!! surely it would eventually drive more business to you.

If you do, please to the following, make side shots of all of them so that a purchaser can physically see the difference in the profiles, and the heights of the tuners. When I started looking for a replacement I couldn't believe how hard it was to find a Side Profile shot of the bridge.

This is picture I took for myself, this is without question, the nicest double-locking whammy bar I've ever played, absolutely beautiful ... maybe you could tell me whether its well-made or not ... I can only tell people about how it felt, it felt "perfect". I'm a rock guy, so lots of palm-muting. I couldn't afford this guitar unfortunately.
16935
 

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This is great information, thanks for sharing.

YOU should make a video about the Ibanez Trems!! surely it would eventually drive more business to you.

If you do, please to the following, make side shots of all of them so that a purchaser can physically see the difference in the profiles, and the heights of the tuners. When I started looking for a replacement I couldn't believe how hard it was to find a Side Profile shot of the bridge.

This is picture I took for myself, this is without question, the nicest double-locking whammy bar I've ever played, absolutely beautiful ... maybe you could tell me whether its well-made or not ... I can only tell people about how it felt, it felt "perfect". I'm a rock guy, so lots of palm-muting. I couldn't afford this guitar unfortunately.
I'm going to make the Youtube channel when I'm OUT of business [I'll always be in the parts business]. That's the only time I'll have the spare time to do it.
 
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