Ibanez JEM Forum banner

1 - 20 of 87 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I can finally post images!!!! Time to start the thread. Some of you know, I am trying to learn how to do this. Something I want to cover that no other thread seems to are al lthe details. Such as dilutions, brands, borax, etc. Through a process of trial, error, and hopefully feedback from some of you successful swirlers - end up with a complete how to on this.

Some may think I am giving away a secret - I think I am telling a technique. There is no secret to art. And as many of you have said, swirling is an art. Just because I will discover the tools needed to do it, doesn't mean my end result will look nice! I have a lot of Vai's music, and even a FP Jem - but I still can't play worth a damn!

So please help me with this. Those that are trying too and not getting answers - this is the place for you. I plan on trying a few dips each night, doing different things until I get it. Please keep this creative and informative. Real advice or ideas only. Let me know what you are thinking I should do next.

With that being said, here is a picture of my 1st attempt at this with the following:

Dipping Container:
55g Bucket filled with 40g of water
20oz of Borax from Walmart...turquise box, in the laundry section. Red writing...
Mixed and sat for about 10 days before trying anything. Well disolved

Paints:
1Shot Lettering Enamel (Dick Blick art stores)
Black, Red, Yellow
Thined 2.5cc of Paint and 5.0cc of Thinner sp 1:2 I suppose

Process:
Poured in black - CLOSE TO THE WATER - spread well but it looked greasy
Poured in red - same thing - didn't spread very much at all
Poured in Yellow - Spread pretty good, looked correct, a few thick greasy dots...

Swirled a bit with a stick (Not go at this, really is an art) but I am more concerned with paint coverage, color, etc. right now. Make sure it coats right. Well work on pretty later.

All in all - I think all the paint was still too thick. It really ran, and looked greasy. Vibrant, bad lighting for picture however.

Pics:

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Attempt #2

Dipping Container:
Same water / borax as above...

Paints:
Same Paints
Thined 7.5cc of Paint and 17.5cc of Thinner so 1:2.3333
Not much thinner I guess??? I was thinking it was more...Filled the paint to the 7.5cc line and the thinner topped it off at the 25cc line...so yes, my math is correct...hmmm

Process:
Poured in black - CLOSE TO THE WATER - spread well but it still looked greasy and had spots.
Poured in red - same thing - didn't spread at all - just loked thick and vibrant.
Poured in Yellow - Spread pretty good, looked correct, a few thick greasy dots...just like before

Now I think it seemed to thin, but in looking at my reductions, it not that much thinner than the one before...

Pics:

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And here is my water / paint after the dip...see the oil spots? They didn't spread.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This happened to me a couple of times when I either put too much paint on the water or didn't thin it enough. Sometimes the greasiness was from putting too much thinner as well..... depending on the thinner.

http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/my-swirl-attempt-75371.html

These were my attempts when I had to the time.
Those look great! Much further than i have gotten. Am I being too ambitious starting with 3 colors? Should I work with 2 first, and then go from there?

I have tried HOK Auto paints, and it skinned over almost immediately. I was also using a medium reducer (since that's what I paint with). Still might experiment with them some, using a slow reducer. And when I used the medium, it was 50/50 ratio - so it might have been over reduced as well. Did you ever give the Auto's a try?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
I started with 2 colours too. I used oil paints and medium (I think) thinner. I didn't have access to auto paints so I was limited as to what I could try. The pics I posted were my successful runs. They certainly all didn't turn out like that. I had a few that were messy with too much paint etc. If ever there were oil spots like in ur pic I'd empty the bucket and start fresh. It always screwed up the next run.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah - my water seems pretty bad. I stirred it up to try and get stuff to surface, and there is just a TON of small yellow everywhere. I'll let it settle for the night on top, skim it tomorrow, and see how it looks.

Mean time, here is a dip with the original reduction of 1:2. This was dipped AFTER the other one was with no additional paint. So I might also be putting too much paint in the water.

UGLY!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The question of Borax...

NO BORAX


BORAX ADDED
and some other colors...very greasy looking as well...but you see how the
paint reacts when there is no borax. It just wants to cling to the plastic
container.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
And for those curious, cause I know I always am...here is my playground...
I think you can see the borax in the back left of the top picture.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Man I wish I had your setup. Mine was in my backyard subject to the elements. It was a very messy ordeal. This summer I actually might get a big tub to start again. I have a body sitting in my garage. A guitar body.... not human.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
813 Posts
Might I suggest 55 gallon drum liner garbage bags.When your ready to empty the water poke some holes in the bag ang lift.That way the paint stays stuck to the bag making cleanup easier.One shot sells there own reducer.It looks to be almost some kind of oil type of stuff.Doesn't look like paint thinner.Might be worth a try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,658 Posts
if you dont use the oneshot b rand reducer you wont be able to use urethane car clear to clear it and i think thats your only mistake except a little too much paint in water in that pic.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I thought about the bags...definately would make cleanup easier. Now I have to clean the bottom of the bucket!

As for 1Shot - I am using Mineral Spirits to reduce. I have have never had a problem clearing over it in the past. You just don't go heavy on your first coat. A mist coat and let it flash for about 5 minutes, then come back heavier. That's how you should clear anything!

Good info though - since some don't know that. And that is also just my experience.

And to answer the guy asking about paint brands. Currently these tests are being done with 1 Shot Lettering Enamels.

Regular Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=157

Fluourescent Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=159

You can also get them at Dick Blick, and even many art stores have them.
I am still not getting them to work they way they should. So they may not be the answer. But I am still trying. They have a ton of colors, and would be ideal!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
978 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Awesome! Looks like you have great coverage, and vibrant colors. A lot going on, but that's just the technique of swirling. Looks like you got the imporant part down!

Do you know if the Auto paints you are using are considered Single stage? In other words, can you paint a car with them and be donw with it? Or are they base coats requiring a clear coat?

I've got access to HOK, PPG, Planet Color, and others...I have heard to possibly use single stage? Also, are you reducing them with a slow reducer, or just a medium? Or not at all?

My HOK attemtps have been poor. I tried black and Fourescent Green. I didn't try very long because htey skinned over so quick. I'm guessing it was reduced too much, and I was using medium reducer.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Where can I purchase the oil based paints at? Anywhere online?
These are what I am PLAYING with...

Regular Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=157

Fluourescent Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=159

You can get them at Menards or Home Depot as well. Rustoleum makes a small can of Oil Based Enamels in Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Gray, Black, and White. I gave these a try once, but didn't carry on with them ONLY because of the limited colors. I assumed poeple must be using something else since they are using Flourescents and Rusoleum doesn't have those. Not in a can anyway - they do in spray.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
These are what I am PLAYING with...

Regular Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=157

Fluourescent Colors
http://www.coastairbrush.com/products.asp?cat=159

You can get them at Menards or Home Depot as well. Rustoleum makes a small can of Oil Based Enamels in Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Gray, Black, and White. I gave these a try once, but didn't carry on with them ONLY because of the limited colors. I assumed poeple must be using something else since they are using Flourescents and Rusoleum doesn't have those. Not in a can anyway - they do in spray.
Thanks man I appreciate it. I haven't really tried, but I thought I would ask cuz I was assuming there were some legalities about selling paint online, selling to the sniffers.
 
1 - 20 of 87 Posts
Top