Ibanez JEM Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hasn't anyone every tried this? Is it possible, necessary, or desirable?

I have worked on this concept for many years and I have found it is all about equalizing and balancing the tension between SPRINGS AND STRINGS. Here follows the information sent with my signature "Balanced Bridge" strings made by Thomastik-Infeld in Vienna, Austria.
Verheyen Stratocaster Full Floating Tremolo Bridge Setup

For the last 20 years the Fender Stratocaster has been my main guitar. When working with the bridge setup I always strive for the most musical and in-tune mechanical operation I can find. I've asked hundreds of players about their setup and over the years I've come up with my own method that always returns to pitch and has many musical benefits as well. The method described works best when the tuners are working properly, the nut has been properly cut so string don't bind, the neck truss rod properly adjusted and the six (or 2) mounting screws that fasten the bridge plate provide proper freedom of movement.

At the heart of the setup is balancing spring tension with string tension by adjusting the two long spring tension adjusting screws at the "claw" to which the tremolo springs are attached to the steel tremolo block. Use 3 springs from the tremolo block to the claw: furthest position left, furthest position right and center; do NOT set the outside springs at an angle.
1) Begin by adjusting the 2 screws of the claw so that when you pull UP on the tremolo arm and the bridge is in contact with the body the G string pulls up a minor 3rd. This will make the B string rise a whole step and the E string a half step. The mechanics of the system should first make musical sense. You will end up with an "Angled Claw" which is exactly what you're looking for.
2) Next, adjust the screw on the bass side of the claw (closest to the low E string) so that when you pull up on the tremolo arm and the bridge is in contact with the body, the A and D string when fretted at the 5th fret (D and G) rise a whole step to E and A.
3) You may have to go back and forth a few times between the two adjusting screws until the bridge is stable and the intervals described are true. And you'll need to correct the intonation by adjusting the bridge saddles.
4) When all is right and balanced between springs and strings, the Am7 barre chord on the 5th fret should sound like it is descending musically to an Abm7 when the bar is slightly depressed. It won't be perfect but it's a very musical sound you're after and should achieve. This effect is ideal for "shaking" chords and applying a manual tremolo to your voicings.
5) I use a Teflon lubricant (sold in electronic shops) under the strings at the nut slots and where the strings contact the string tree(s). You only need to use a little lube; wipe away any excess.
6) I try to use the minimum windings on the string posts, preferring just one if possible. My bass strings leave the post at the top; my trebles wind down and leave the post at the bottom.
7) There is a short video of me explaining the whole process at
VIDEO Carl Verheyen's Strat set-up 1.01 It was recorded a few years back in Amsterdam …….it may also help!

All the best,

Carl Verheyen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Seems a little pointless for an Edge Pro, if I'm reading it right. Sounds like it is more for keeping the strings from binding to the nut and string tree, for a non-locking floating tremolo. Those aren't really a factor for a locking tremolo.

Can't really say if it is necessary, never had any experience with a non-locking floating tremolo. I can't even think of any company besides Vigier that uses them as a stock option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
1) Begin by adjusting the 2 screws of the claw so that when you pull UP on the tremolo arm and the bridge is in contact with the body the G string pulls up a minor 3rd. This will make the B string rise a whole step and the E string a half step. The mechanics of the system should first make musical sense. You will end up with an "Angled Claw" which is exactly what you're looking for.

2) Next, adjust the screw on the bass side of the claw (closest to the low E string) so that when you pull up on the tremolo arm and the bridge is in contact with the body, the A and D string when fretted at the 5th fret (D and G) rise a whole step to E and A.

3) You may have to go back and forth a few times between the two adjusting screws until the bridge is stable and the intervals described are true. And you'll need to correct the intonation by adjusting the bridge saddles.
It seems like this implies something that's not really possible. An angled claw will get you no closer to or further from the interval relationship described. A tremolo bridge is a solid metal unit that pivots.

It's the nature of standard tuning and typical string sets (with lowest 3 wound) that will let you get pull-up intervals of approximately 3-2-2-3-2-1 (in half steps from lowest to highest string) as long as the bridge can move at least that far. Claw angle isn't going to speed up or slow down the pitch change of certain strings as the bridge pivots.

4) When all is right and balanced between springs and strings, the Am7 barre chord on the 5th fret should sound like it is descending musically to an Abm7 when the bar is slightly depressed. It won't be perfect but it's a very musical sound you're after and should achieve. This effect is ideal for "shaking" chords and applying a manual tremolo to your voicings.
Just like what was described in the previous steps, this is something that no amount of claw angling can make better or worse, and the angle the bridge is set to float at basically has no effect. Play any chord (maybe leaving out the 1st string, as that won't change pitch as rapidly) and you should be able to use the bar to get an out-of-tune transposed version a half step higher or lower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Basically it is saying that with these directions you can achieve conformity across multiple strings when you use the tremolo, which is very musically desirable.

My question is just that whether this has any effect on an Edge Pro setup, for there must be fundamental differences between the two system, albeit sharing a two point knife edge pivot spring loaded tremolo formula.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Basically it is saying that with these directions you can achieve conformity across multiple strings when you use the tremolo, which is very musically desirable.
It's saying that, but it's not correct. As long as the trem is something with a solid metal base that pivots around an axis, you can't change the whammy interval relationship between strings by angling the claw a certain way. If you put the claw at the opposite angle from a position where it's supposedly doing something (ensuring the strings remain in tune by keeping the same bridge angle), the strings will still pull up by the same intervals as before. Except for something specifically designed to respond to the pull of individual springs (which doesn't exist as far as I know), there's no trem this will have any effect on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,076 Posts
I've seen this video mentioned, and it makes more sense when you watch it, as opposed to someone trying to describe in words. It seems to work for Carl in the vid, but never tried it, myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I've seen this video mentioned, and it makes more sense when you watch it, as opposed to someone trying to describe in words. It seems to work for Carl in the vid, but never tried it, myself.
I've seen a video where he mentions this and shows the angled claw, then plays a few things while using the bar. I didn't see any evidence of claw angle having an effect on pull-up intervals.

It takes a few minutes to test whether the angle has any effect on pitch:

1. Get in tune with a floating trem and take note of the pitch each string reaches when you pull up as far as possible (a tuner with cents display is useful here).

2. Angle the claw in some way, ensuring the new setting keeps the the bridge in the same position (the strings should be in tune).

3. See what pitch each string reaches with bar pull-up now.

Repeat steps 2 & 3 with different angles as desired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
Um...Whaaa?

I've seen Strat trems flex a little bit, as they wriggle around the 6 screws. There's play in the screw holes, and if you're pulling up you can get some movement. But what he says defies the laws of physics. Variations in pitch from string to string are (wiggle tolerances notwithstanding) entirely based on the intonation position of the saddle. I DON'T mean that the pitch differentials are not related to the string diameter and tension (the same things that require intonated saddles to begin with) But what I mean is, the farther back the saddle is from the pivot point (the studs or screws) the greater the tension (and therefore pitch) adjustment for that particular string.

In other words, take your Floyd and park all the saddles as far back as they go. You'll get tremendous pitch fluctuation from very little movement on the trem arm. Now shoot them all the way forward, and the opposite will happen. Imagine if the saddle point was located exactly at the fulcrum point. There would be very little pitch fluctuation, right? So whatever he does to balance the spring tension is AT BEST compensating for slight wiggles of the bridge against the 6 screws. A 2-point fulcrum tremolo (like the Edge) is incapable of succumbing to any variations of this kind. To do so would be to suggest that the metal is bending, or that the bridge walks off of it's knife edge pivot. It's preposterous. Go check out a Steinberger Trans Trem and see what kind of shenanigans are required to maintain pitch across tremolo motion, and you'll see how these micro shifts in tension across the unit can't be responsible for pitch adjustment across the tremolo's range. Furthermore, the relationship between the G, B, and E strings (G raises 3x, B raises 2x, E raises 1x) are pretty much built into the string gauge and intonation recipe already.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top