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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yet I've seen many people be able to do this, especially Steve Vai, who does it all the time and I don't understand why that is, maybe I need to use more force, but when Vai does it, it looks effortless, buttery trem like he is not using any strength like there is no resistance but when I try to do it, there is resistance and I don't want to force it too much

My setup isn't different from the norm. I got the knife edges level with the body. My action is 1.5 and 2.0. I'm using 9 to 42 strings. On both of my guitars, I'm unable to do this I can't go past a certain point, they're set up the same way.

I'm using the 3 stock springs that came with the guitars.

Here is a video of Vai doing, it looks effortless, he is not using strength, yet when I try to do this, there is more resistance than Vais and I can't go quite as low pitch where the strings flop like he does it here. Is this because he has a tremolo stabilizer? Is it because his action is lower? I read his actions is like 1.2

I don't want to push super hard and screw something up like I go down, but not quite reach the low note he is reaching here, all he is doing is playing the 16th fret on the high E

 

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What trem are on your 2 guitars? I have had to replace the springs on both Jem jr’s, my S570AH, and my RG550. The only Obanez that I haven’t had to replace the springs on is my Premium Jem.

I have replaced the springs with Floyd Rose Springs. And all my terms now return to pitch after a dive bomb or pull up. They make regular and extra strength. I went with the extra strength silent springs. You might want to get the regular strength silent springs. They are about 20 dollars for a set of 3.

It could also be that the stock springs are over stretched. Mine were overstretched and permanently deformed when I removed them.
 

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It could also be that the stock springs are over stretched. Mine were overstretched and permanently deformed when I removed them.
I have a difficult time believing that all of your springs were deformed, or that they were causing tuning instability. Maybe 1 bad spring but 12? Especially in the 550 is a Genesis, if it's old that's just metal fatigue. Explain how they were deformed?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
my guitars are rg550 and rg565 Genesis. Stock springs with edge bridge lol

I have everything well setup, my rg565 in particular is fairly new

I think steve uses lo pro? I honestly don't know how he does that. I tried and I can't get as low as he does it, must be a setup, I know his action is 1.2

I don't know if his backstop helps with this

I don't have an issue with tuning stability or return at all. I know the bridge angle is where is supposed, my action is average, springs are not even old. I don't even use the bar very often.
 

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I have a difficult time believing that all of your springs were deformed, or that they were causing tuning instability. Maybe 1 bad spring but 12? Especially in the 550 is a Genesis, if it's old that's just metal fatigue. Explain how they were deformed?
The claw was almost touching the wood on these. When I removed the springs, the coils didn’t go back. The very end of the spring had a gap in the coils. The springs on the Jem Jrs were the worst. I replaced them with Floyd Rose springs and they all returned to pitch perfectly. If I would have saved them I could have sent you a picture. The ones on the RG weren’t visually as unappealing, but the guitar wouldn’t return to pitch with the factory springs, so I replaced them. Problem solved. The RG also had a rather tall 5th fret, which I dressed down. Perfect guitar now.
 

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I would imagine the lower end guitars (Jem Jr being equipt with a non gotoh made trem system) could possibly be equipt with lesser quality metal springs. I have springs that are original in a 30+ year old Ibanez and they are perfect.

As for flopping... Are we referring to him dropping that note down a full octive? I am not sure what his setup is... He may use 8's for all I know. But he has great control, I see a lot of guys do that (if that is what we are referring to) and on a good day I can do it all day long... It's not something I practice though, so I am not always that great at it. Guthrie Goven, satch... Ect ect does this as well with ease. I know Guthrie uses 10's, these guys are in their own league though. Something else to practice! Haha
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I would imagine the lower end guitars (Jem Jr being equipt with a non gotoh made trem system) could possibly be equipt with lesser quality metal springs. I have springs that are original in a 30+ year old Ibanez and they are perfect.

As for flopping... Are we referring to him dropping that note down a full octive? I am not sure what his setup is... He may use 8's for all I know. But he has great control, I see a lot of guys do that (if that is what we are referring to) and on a good day I can do it all day long... It's not something I practice though, so I am not always that great at it. Guthrie Goven, satch... Ect ect does this as well with ease. I know Guthrie uses 10's, these guys are in their own league though. Something else to practice! Haha
what bridge do you have? ive seen people with floyd rose bridges do this with ease

is a setup thing, there is no way steve vai is stronger than I am lol if you watch the video you see how he doesn't even use force, yet with mine, there is more resistance, he is using 9s

i would have to release tension from the springs, but then it changes the whole setup, bridge angle
 

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Well not all springs are equal on tension. I have 2 guitars... Same model, an edge in one and a lo-pro in the other. My edge I need 3 springs... In the lo-pro I use 2 because 3 is too stiff. I would imagine the reason is the mass of the bridge... And the springs are not equal in strength. My edge has new gotoh springs, my lo pro has the original 30 year old springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well not all springs are equal on tension. I have 2 guitars... Same model, an edge in one and a lo-pro in the other. My edge I need 3 springs... In the lo-pro I use 2 because 3 is too stiff. I would imagine the reason is the mass of the bridge... And the springs are not equal in strength. My edge has new gotoh springs, my lo pro has the original 30 year old springs.
my guitars are fairly new, even rg565 which I bought this year is this way, but ive noticed people who have lo pro have an easier time doing this
 

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If you have a 3 spring set up... You can just remove the one in the middle. Then run your claw screws in until the guitar is in tune. Then you'll be set up again. It will be easier to pull or push down on the trem bar because you only have 2 springs. It's not difficult to do. And if you don't like it... Just put the spring back in and adjust the claw back out until the guitar is in tune again.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you have a 3 spring set up... You can just remove the one in the middle. Then run your claw screws in until the guitar is in tune. Then you'll be set up again. It will be easier to pull or push down on the trem bar because you only have 2 springs. It's not difficult to do. And if you don't like it... Just put the spring back in and adjust the claw back out until the guitar is in tune again.
i know steve has 3 springs im trying to find how he is able to do this with so much when my setup isn’t that much different from his tbh
 

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Well as I said, not all springs are the same, he may have hand picked sets of springs that his tech supply's based on tension. Or... He just can. I mean, just cuz he's a skinny older guy doesn't mean he doesn't have strength in that way. Guitar is all he does.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Well as I said, not all springs are the same, he may have hand picked sets of springs that his tech supply's based on tension. Or... He just can. I mean, just cuz he's a skinny older guy doesn't mean he doesn't have strength in that way. Guitar is all he does.
i know is not strength lmao he doesn’t apply any force as you can see in the video. Its his setup that allows it. Im trying to find out if is because his action is lower. Obviously he doesn’t have stock ibanez springs lol that guitar has changed parts too many times

i think it has to do with bridge as well ive seen people do this much easier on lo pro

i may be wrong but it seems easier to do on low pro

now you said the weight of the bridge chances are the lo pro weights less than original edge and that may be one of the reasons steve prefers lo pro

also the original floyd rose probably weight a lot less than ibanez bridges

original edge is probably one of the heaviest bridges

ive never see satriani do that strings flopping with his original esge like Vai does it

is the setup, action, and weight of the bridge, maybe the springs that come stock with ibanez are not ideal for this

Only his tech can respond if he using ibanez stock springs
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The string lock screws on the edge add more weight to it, so the lo pro weights less and that’s why Vai prefers it and thats why he can dive bomb so deep

this also explain this flopping way easier to do on an original floyd rose. Ive seen people do this on floyd rose with super ease

no wonder steve doesn’t like the edge as much, he cant do all his acrobatics with it
 

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The weight of the trem has nothing to do with it. There will be some differences between different designs of locking trem, and some variation in the way springs react, but Fowleri if you cant dive bomb till the strings are slack, and assuming there is nothing wrong with your hands, the trem must be set up in a weird way. I have no issue on any of my Ibanez pressing the trem till the strings are slack, regardless of which trem they have. Also, Steve makes stuff look easy, even when it isn't, that is part of his act.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
its setup the same way Rich says is supposed to be lol i even posted photos of my bridge angle before. My string height is 1.5 and 2mm, I can’t flop the strings on both of my genesis guitars because i encounter resistance

There is more resistance compared to how Vai and Floyd rose owners do it. The weight does play a role as I read from people on this forum old threads that lo pro doesn’t flutter as good as edge.

My rg565 is literally new. There is nothing wrong with it and there is no way the springs are bad. It stays in perfect tune for weeks despite the strings being months old

All i can think is maybe is because the string are old now on both of my guitar and i need to replace them

i still believe is easier on lo pro and especially floyd rose look at this guy

minute 1:40 he does it with so much ease and no pressure at all

 

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A trem's ability to flutter is influenced by weight. Dive bombing to slack still isn't. How do you know there is more resistance? Have you measured to pressure required on one of Steve's guitars compared to yours? I think you are imagining this.
 

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Idk, I use 5 springs on my main guitar and can dump the bridge till the strings are completely slack. Must be the practice + protein and leafy greens in my diet 💪.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
A trem's ability to flutter is influenced by weight. Dive bombing to slack still isn't. How do you know there is more resistance? Have you measured to pressure required on one of Steve's guitars compared to yours? I think you are imagining this.
i can see it in the videos lol i have to excert more force and i stillcant get it go as deep as Vai does

look at the video i linked how this guy with floyd does it with so much ease
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Idk, I use 5 springs on my main guitar and can dump the bridge till the strings are completely slack. Must be the practice + protein and leafy greens in my diet 💪.
maybe im not pressinf hard enough out of fear of messing something up?
 
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