[davester1234]

This evening I got in a pretty heated debate with a friend about smoking/addiction.

I have a few questions I'd like to throw to you. I understand some of you are non smokers, and some smoke. Please try your best to be objective. Take a step back and answer iwith your heart, and not neccesarily with your personal philisophy. Sometimes we shape our philisophy's on what we want to believe, and not neccessarily what we truly believe. Anyway, you get the point.



Do you think there is a difference between mental and physical addiction to cigarettes, or do you believe the two overlap? Keep in mind, its a given that this can only be properly determined on a case by case basis, and we're not taking about the chap who smokes a cig once a month to be social. But in general, do you believe that the average joe blow smoker can say he's only mentally addicted to cigarettes without being physically addicted?

Secondly, what if any, is the point that a mental addiction becomes a physical addiction to cigarettes?


Thirdly, would you feel comfortable saying that the average joe blow smoker is making the incorrect choice - the WRONG choice - by smoking, based on empirical scientific evidence, or would you be more inclined to say that 'incorrect' is value based, and its only wrong if the individual believes its wrong? Answer trthfully, and consider the implications of your answer.
PLEASE NOTE: I'm not asking if you think its okay to lecture a smoker about what you see as a dirty habit. What I am asking is, objectively, do you think that you exceed your proper ground to say smoking is a poor choice?

I'd love to know you're thoughts.

 

[Distantshore]

Sorry this went over my head, I got stuck when you said case by case basis...I'm still on my first case of beer and haven't come up with anything.....sorry bad joke I know...maybe somebody smarter and more qualified than me can help you out. Best of luck!

 

[ET Guitars]

Theres plenty of people viewing this but no-one posting, so I'll have a go.

1) There is a complete difference between physical and mental addiction. I am sceptical about mental addiction also, if anything it may be just a "security blanket". I have heard people say that they took up smoking because it gave them something to do in boring social situations! I do not for a second believe that a chain smoker is merely mentally addicted, nicotine is highly physically addictive, this has been proven. A person gets severe physical withdrawal symptoms, because the chemicals have affected them, not because their brain is making them feel bad!

2) see 1).

3) Objectively yes I think smoking is not a good choice. Most people would immediately object to breathing even small amounts of burning plastic or other chemical fumes, yet believe that smoking will not harm them too much, other than maybe a raspy cough. The chemicals present is combusted organic materials have been scientifically shown to do all sorts of damage to the body, most notably cancer. These are the facts, what people choose to do is another story altogether. Personal values are more about likes, dislikes, not doing harm unto others, morals etc. So regardless of what a person believes, unless they can change the laws of physiology, then scientific evidence is the yardstick for these debates.

I am not casting judgement either way, if people want to smoke then thats up to them, but they should be aware of the risks. I choose not to smoke.

 

[dex]

Mental addiction is way stronger than actual physical addiction when it comes to smoking.
It takes about 72 hours after giving up for a smoker to stop craving nicotine but they never stop craving the act of smoking.

Based on empirical research I feel pretty safe getting up on my high horse and saying outright that anyone who chooses to smoke knowing all the facts about smoking is making the wrong choice but it is their choice. :wink:

ilia

 

[JESTER700]

et6666 has said what I would if he hadn't already...

So, I'll just say "+1".

I doubt dex's 72 hr nicotine thingy a bit. I don't know for sure, but I thought it was longer than that.

 

[the.godfather]

I personally wouldnt ever do it, obviously. Not only because of the huge health risks, but also the cost of it nowadays too. But at the same time, I respect others decision to smoke. And I dont mind if they do it in front of me, of near me. I dont really care about it when in pubs either (apart from the gastly smell at the end of the night, lol)

I am not one of these people that "squirm" or "choke" at the slightest sign of smoke. I have friends that do it, and I think they are pathetic. I have friends that as soon as they walk past a person thats smoking......they fall into a choking fit, lol. Breathing the odd bit in now and again in the air aint gonna do huge amounts of damage to you.

But I believe people should be allowed to do what they like. If they want to smoke, then so be it. Thats why I dont believe all this "ban smoking" lark thats going on, especially when in public spaces.

 

[guitvai1]

I on the other hand do not respect other people's rights to smoke. The ban on smoking in bars and restaurants in Toronto has been fantastic. Now when I leave a bar I don't smell like I've been rolling around in an ash tray, my eyes don't hurt and I don't cough up a lung for the next week. In fact my sensitivity to smoke and being around smokers has diminished even more so since the ban.

Smoking is a known killer and that is a fact not a rumour - This drives up the cost of health care which we all have to pay for.

Also why is it the right of smokers to throw cigarette butts out the windows of their cars or just down on the street - the whole thing is disgusting.

 

[Flobanez]

Smoking is a terrible addiction. I find myself quitting soon. Very soon.

 

[JJEMMER777]

I on the other hand do not respect other people's rights to smoke - the whole thing is disgusting.

Yes - very nasty to be around if you dont smoke. I don't care if someone wants to cuts years off their own life and live in stench, but I DO CARE if someone is rude and doesn't take in to consideration the people that are around them ie: Smoking in Restaurants! Ever try eating while someone is continually blowing smoke in your face? As far as the addiction - my roomate smokes. He's 54 and has been smoking since 18.I don't allow him to smoke in the house and he's very polite about it. He will NEVER stop. I have talked to him about it and he'd rather keep going unitl he dies. He coughs ALL the time and sounds terrible.The addication to nicotine is probably the worst addication there is. Right up there with rock and heroine. I'm guessing from talking to him that the mental aspect is worse than the actual physical aspect. Last word - smoking WILL shorten your life - Just ask Peter Jennings.

 

[JJEMMER777]

Smoking is a terrible addiction. I find myself quitting soon. Very soon.

I sincerely hope you do quit Flo....like to see ya here on the forum for a while

 

[jemsite]

STAY ON ORIGINAL TOPIC PLEASE.

Nothing like the topic of smoking to bring up debate among friends :lol:

Do you think there is a difference between mental and physical addiction to cigarettes, or do you believe the two overlap? ...But in general, do you believe that the average joe blow smoker can say he's only mentally addicted to cigarettes without being physically addicted?

Addiction often has both mental and physical components which overlap. Ciggs easily provide for both. Study after study has shown ciggs to be physically addictive, by the natural ingredients but also with man-made additives to effect burn rate, etc. In short Marlboro, etc. chemists have designed the almost perfect addiction. An addictive cancer stick that people pay top dollar for. Scary.

That said, I do personally believe in most cases it's the smoker's mental addictions that are more difficult to break. This is evident by the countless number of people who quit cold turkey. Those people had less of a physical component or one that was easily broken by a quick detox. People who can't quit even on the patch have a strong mental component, as do people who go back to smoking when a personal crisis occurs for example.

People gain control with cigarettes.... it affords them to take 5 minute breaks from work, walk outside, "time for myself" and essentially be in their own personal world with the cigarette.

Secondly, what if any, is the point that a mental addiction becomes a physical addiction to cigarettes?

The point, explained somewhat above, is they are intertwined. I believe the mental component is the more difficult one to break however, which makes treatment for this addiction very unreliable.

Thirdly, would you feel comfortable saying that the average joe blow smoker is making the incorrect choice - the WRONG choice - by smoking, based on empirical scientific evidence, or would you be more inclined to say that 'incorrect' is value based, and its only wrong if the individual believes its wrong? Answer trthfully, and consider the implications of your answer.

Both. The science part is obvious. Lip cancer, tongue cancer (too bad EVH lied about this too and wouldn't be a spokesman), lung cancer, depleted immune system, etc, etc, etc.

Morally speaking... for example smokers with children cause them significant increases in allergies & other troubles. This is obviously morally wrong (and scientifically proven) but a debatable issue on who defines morals. Hence the focus on science... glen

 

[shredmaster]

i think it is both mental and physical for obvious reasons. we all know nicotine is highly addictive so there is your physical. and what glen said as far as your "personal time out or break" for your mental. i never thought i would smoke when i was younger...but i did start late in life when i was around 25? i'm 33 now and haven't had one in 4 months and don't plan to. although i was never a huge smoker, i'm saving money, and am not burdened by it. it's better all the way around. i had a few nic fits while quitting but moreso, for me, it was the mental. to me there was nothing like standing on the balcony before bed when no one was around and having that peaceful smoke before bed. i just got to the point where i hated doing it. you won't quit if you don't want to. unfortunately most people really never want to. it's easier said than done but if you want to quit, you just won't pick one up ever again. good luck to all who are trying to quit. and yes, if you can make it past 3-4 days without nicotine in your system, your body will cleanse most of it away. it doesn't take too long to cleanse your system of it.

one last thought about smoking......unfortunately the damage you do to yourslef is long-term...it happens over time. you are just as "healthy" before you light one up as you are when you finish it....so you feel fine. then 20 years later you are diagnosed and you think....oh i'll quit! well, too late. i didn't want to face that day and hopefully never will.

 

[Rich]

8 months later, do I still want one? DAMN STRAIGHT!! Why? Mental addiction, definitely far overpowers the physical.

 

[fettouhi]

8 months later, do I still want one? DAMN STRAIGHT!! Why? Mental addiction, definitely far overpowers the physical.

It sure does .

Regards

André

 

[darren wilson]

I think "mental addiction" really refers more to the habit... whether it's the activity itself or how that activity enables a person to follow a daily routine (e.g. regular 'smoke breaks' to get away from the desk or whatever). It's really a form of compulsive behaviour.

The physical addiction is a chemical dependency the body builds up for certain substances.

Breaking physical addiction is primarily a matter of weaning the body off the substance gradually. Or quitting cold-turkey and dealing with the withdrawal symptoms.

Breaking the mental addiction requires behaviour modification. Some people have addictions that are a 'crutch'... they are a way of dealing with stress or adversity, and if you don't find something to replace that habit with, when you get stressed, you risk falling back to that same old crutch.

 

[JJEMMER777]

I think "mental addiction" really refers more to the habit... whether it's the activity itself or how that activity enables a person to follow a daily routine (e.g. regular 'smoke breaks' to get away from the desk or whatever). It's really a form of compulsive behaviour.

The physical addiction is a chemical dependency the body builds up for certain substances.

Breaking physical addiction is primarily a matter of weaning the body off the substance gradually. Or quitting cold-turkey and dealing with the withdrawal symptoms.

Breaking the mental addiction requires behaviour modification. Some people have addictions that are a 'crutch'... they are a way of dealing with stress or adversity, and if you don't find something to replace that habit with, when you get stressed, you risk falling back to that same old crutch.

Very well put

 

[Tom Gilroy]

I personnally believe smoking to be terrible. My Dad (who is right now giving out to me for typing too "loudly") had to go through bypass surgery due to cigs.

There is a difference between mental addiction and physical. But alot of what people call "mental" refers more to chemicals in the brain being released and us getting addicted to our own natural drugs. The body may want the nicotine, but the mind wants it phsically too.

Every smoker I know wishes they never started. I have no trouble saying smoking is simply the wrong choice, especially for guitarists because we all need to buy gear, and cigs cost alot of money.

Hope you quit soon Flo.

 

[AMD1014]

Smoking is very bad for your health and my dad is a hardcore cigarette smoker. I dont smoke cigarettes but i do enjoy a toke off the herb once in a while. But im thinking about cutting down once the school year starts. Its not good for the brain and the lungs.

 

[Drew]

1.) Well, this comes down to the difference, if any, between a "habit" and an "addiction." Merriam Webster tells us this:

HABIT - 7 a : a behavior pattern acquired by frequent repetition or physiologic exposure that shows itself in regularity or increased facility of performance b : an acquired mode of behavior that has become nearly or completely involuntary c : ADDICTION

ADDICTION - 2 : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

So, it's somewhat of a blurry line - essentially, an "addiction" is being in the habit of using something that's habit-forming. A touch circular, don't you think?

2.) Personally, I too have to say "chemical dependency." It's a blurry line, in that I'm sure metal addiction can have a certain impact in this as well, but when the absense of something leads to physical symptoms and personality change, there's a physical component in play. for me, the best analogy is coffee - I'm a "habitual" coffee drinker, and usually take a travel mug in to work with me, and then pick up one or two more large coffees over the course of the day (black, no cream or sugar so we can't consider the possibility of sugar rush/withdrawl here). As of yet (after doing this the last year or so of high school, all through college, and the two years' since), I don't get headaches if I miss my morning coffee - there have been days where I've just completely forgotten, or didn't get a chance, etc. But, I can tell you for a FACT I'd much rather start my morning with a coffee than without - I'm not sure if it's a full-blown mental addiction, but it's a clear habit.

3.) "incorrect" choice? Well, truthfully, no. Personally, I don't see it as my business what any particular person puts in or takes out of their own body - it's ot "incorrect" to do heroin, either. Do I think it's a bad idea? Yes, I do, the health consequences are clear. Do I think it's "exceeding my proper ground" to be a proponent of banning smoking in public places? Noty at all, once again their are demonstrated health risks associate dwith second hand smoke (more so than smoking yourself, in fact), and it's a habit that has a very real impact on the people in your immediate vicinity. As it's invasive to them, I feel you have no "right" per se to smoke wherever you want to.

Legalization aspects are pretty iffy, IMO, but if you ban tobacco use, tobacco will just become another marijuana (which I think should be legalized and taxed, if only because this way you're not spending exorbinant amounts of money trying to stop its use, but rather making money off it - much better use of my tax money, IMO), so it's really a waste of time to go down that road. But, I won't say it's "incorrect" - stupid, and possibly rude (if you're surrounded by non-smokers), but hey, I'm a bit of a drinker, so it's not like I can preach. :lol:

Interesting topic, incidentally.

-D

 

[red5]

et6666 has said what I would if he hadn't already...

So, I'll just say "+1".

I doubt dex's 72 hr nicotine thingy a bit. I don't know for sure, but I thought it was longer than that.

The physical additiction in its entirety lasts a month, but the bad part is gone within 48-72 hours, depending how bad you are addicted. After that it's mostly mental addiction.