[dsquared]

another giveaway on the chi FP2 - none of the FP2s in the 'wild' have a pattern like what's in that stock pic. if you check rich's gallery pic, the patterns are all the same with only minor positioning differences.

 

[fwd0120]

I don't think Steve's was a Chibanez....

lol i know!! I was not even talking about that, i was just bragging i played a legit, and steve's own (andy alt said its the one he used on stairway) fp2. thats all!

 

[Mustang 289]

Great idea in posting this. It seems those Chibanez guitar are everywhere. About a year ago, I saw my local GC get burned by taking one of those in and later finding out (through the advice of a customer) that it was a fake. In fact, last week, I was at a local pawn shop and a guy walked in and wanted a $1000 loan against one. The folks that own the shop know I'm a "guitar guy", so asked me to look at it. My knowledge of JEMs is limited, as I've only just started getting into them. My opinion was that it was could be a fake, and they shouldn't take the chance...I very well could have been wrong..but better safe than sorry.

What I saw was - some of the screw placements on the guard looked wrong - but I didn't have anything to compare them to, so it was more just a "feeling". The trem had gold fine tuners and the trem arm was the collar-type screw on, not the push in. The routing for the input jack seemed a bit rough, but was painted right over. I'd never seen 7VWH with that poor quality attribute - the finishes always look to notch.

What made me think it could have been real...the tuners had Gotoh on them, the pickups had Dimarzio embossed on them (although the lettering was a little "lumpy" looking - not well defined) and had gold pole pieces on the humbuckers. The serial did start with an F, and seemed to have all the proper decals on the back of the headstock.


The guy at first claimed that "I paid a lot of money for it, so I don't think it could be a fake", but a bit later stated that he "took it as payment for some work he did for a guy". He didn't have the case - he said he sold it awhile ago because he was out of work (do these fakes even come with cases?). As we were looking the guitar over (and I was about to get on the web to research these), he said that it was getting late and he could do the research on his own faster than we could...and he took the guitar and left. Later, someone in the shop told me this guy had been there with a fake Gibson awhile back, which they didn't realize was a fake. If I had to bet, I'd say that JEM was a fake, but I'd feel bad for the guy if I was wrong, or it it was a fake and HE got burned.

 

[AlaskaBat]

ive seen 777 chibanez.theres a pic somewhere of 2 asian chics one is holding a 777dy (possibly vdy) also seen a 777 rip offs on the bay few years ago mainly in yellow suppose to be dy's but the yellow wasnt neon (looked like chit) also ice blue coloured knock offs.havent seen any for ages now though

There are some in this thread...

 

[Swirled777]

I'm going to have to agree that this is a great thread and has alot of useful information in it. It shows the real flaws that these fakes have. The side by side comparo is great and once you compare them in that fashion, then it becomes very obvious which are the fakes.

And I think the few in this thread crying like little girls about how this is giving the counterfeiters much needed info is BS as well. Look, I'll echo what's already been said. If these companies producing these fakes haven't already done exact replicates, then they aren't going to.

At the end of the day we are also talking about guitars getting replicated. It's not like this thread has given away national government secrets, provided exact blueprints to the M1 Abrams tank, or the components of the F22 Raptors computer system.

We're talking guitars and not secrets. Relax and realize that even the almighty JEM can and will get replicated.

 

[86barettaguy]

where do you find these chinese counterfeits anyway? might be amusing to check what they're trying to fool us into buying

would also be interesting to see what is being done about it. counterfeits seem to be one of the results of dealing with chinese companies. The chinese companies don't care what we say and the chinese government doesn't care either...

 

[AlaskaBat]

****, CL, you name it.

 

[AlaskaBat]

3Bay, ioffer, and a ton of other websites.

 

[86barettaguy]

searching for jems on ioffer.com resulted in a lot of chibanez.

there are even fake kramers, for some odd reason. some of them seem to be re-badged "razor" guitars. with the lo-pro edge copy trem. and an "EvH" logo on the back of the headstock.

 

[Drew]

Yeah, nobody has ever sat down and compared a real Jem to a Chibanez? Don't you think the counterfeiters have already done that? This thread is not giving them any more info than they already have, but instead, is educating some people before they purchase. Go take a happy pill.

There's a difference between a guitarist sitting down and making the comparison (or, even worse, someone who just mass-produces guitars), and a Jem lover/expert sitting down and making the comparison. You know WAY more about a Jem than the guys who are making these. Like I said, while I'm not a huge Jem fan I'm a bit of an Ibanez nut, and I've been playing Ibanez guitars for, god, almost a decade now. And, going through that gallery, you were pointing out things that I'd never even noticed before.

There are plenty of resources on this site for people who have a question on a guitar's authenticity. All this is doing is giving counterfeiters a "cheat sheet" to point out things they've been missing.

Look at it this way - if they knew the alignment of the truss rod cover was off, why do you think they didn't fix it? How much would it have cost them to do so? Fifteen minutes of tweaking a CNC program?

Still, the proof is in the pudding - if a year from today, suddenly the pickguard alignment and screws and truss rod cover alignment is right on the ripoffs, you'll know why.

 

[AlaskaBat]

Here's the super-secret formula for Coca-Cola, let's see how many folks scream treason on this one:
1 oz. Citrate Caffeine 3 oz. Citric Acid 3 oz. Citric Acid 1 oz. Extract Vanilla 1 Qt. Lime Juice 2 1/2 oz. Flavoring 30 lbs. Sugar 4 oz. fluid extract of Coca (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf) 2 1/2 gal. Water Caramel sufficient 80 Oil Orange 40 Oil Cinnamon 120 Oil Lemon 20 Oil Coriander 40 Oil Nutmeg 40 Oil Neroli 1 Qt. Alcohol
Mix Caffeine Acid and Lime Juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool. Let stand for 24 hours Flavoring is likely a mixture orange oil, lemon, nutmeg oil cinnamon oil, coriander oil, neroli oil and 1 quart of alcohol This recipe does not specify when sugar, coca caramel or when to add the rest of the water.

 

[Drew]

Here's the super-secret formula for Coca-Cola, let's see how many folks scream treason on this one:
1 oz. Citrate Caffeine 3 oz. Citric Acid 3 oz. Citric Acid 1 oz. Extract Vanilla 1 Qt. Lime Juice 2 1/2 oz. Flavoring 30 lbs. Sugar 4 oz. fluid extract of Coca (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf) 2 1/2 gal. Water Caramel sufficient 80 Oil Orange 40 Oil Cinnamon 120 Oil Lemon 20 Oil Coriander 40 Oil Nutmeg 40 Oil Neroli 1 Qt. Alcohol
Mix Caffeine Acid and Lime Juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool. Let stand for 24 hours Flavoring is likely a mixture orange oil, lemon, nutmeg oil cinnamon oil, coriander oil, neroli oil and 1 quart of alcohol This recipe does not specify when sugar, coca caramel or when to add the rest of the water.

:roll:

That's the equivalent of posting a picture of a Jem and saying, "Here's what it looks like!"

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying, "Hmm... You might want to cut the sugar by about 5mg, and add it in five minutes before you stop boiling."

 

[dcord]

:roll:

That's the equivalent of posting a picture of a Jem and saying, "Here's what it looks like!"

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying, "Hmm... You might want to cut the sugar by about 5mg, and add it in five minutes before you stop boiling."

I disagree entirely. These guitars are not some secret formula. They're readily available at retailers around the world, and if a counterfeiter *really* was interested in accuracy, they'd just buy one and compare/contrast their copies versus the originals. They're obviously not interested, or they'd have done so already. This thread is not any more information than they already have available.

The tipping point, for me, is that this thread could save someone from making a HUGE mistake.

Provided they can figure out the "search" function.

 

[AlaskaBat]

I disagree entirely. These guitars are not some secret formula. They're readily available at retailers around the world, and if a counterfeiter *really* was interested in accuracy, they'd just buy one and compare/contrast their copies versus the originals. They're obviously not interested, or they'd have done so already. This thread is not any more information than they already have available.

The tipping point, for me, is that this thread could save someone from making a HUGE mistake.

Provided they can figure out the "search" function.

Which, by the way is the sole purpose of this thread. Some people have nothing better to complain about...

 

[Rich]

To think that they have no intention of trying to continue to improve would be scrambled eggs. Have you forgotten where they started with the gorrilla grip carricatures of a JEM? They've gotten it to the point where close inspection is needed, and if they start to address some of the dumb mistakes pointed out here it may be quite possible trained eyes will not be able to tell from a picture and only a critical inhand inspection will reveal the true origins. Note how close the new pop in bar trem is in a picture.

 

[Jack Secret]

How about use the search function WHILST not zombifying a dead thread from 9 years ago.

 

[Diamond Dave]

if a counterfeiter *really* was interested in accuracy, they'd just buy one and compare/contrast their copies versus the originals.

So why, as I said earlier, are they improving the copies? Why go to the trouble and expense of setting up the tools and dies to make a more accurate trem (as in the first post) if they're not interested in making them more more like the originals?

It seems obvious to me that the only reason they would do so is that they are losing more money through people identifying the fakes accurately and so not buying their products.

 

[dcord]

So why, as I said earlier, are they improving the copies? Why go to the trouble and expense of setting up the tools and dies to make a more accurate trem (as in the first post) if they're not interested in making them more more like the originals?

It seems obvious to me that the only reason they would do so is that they are losing more money through people identifying the fakes accurately and so not buying their products.

I agree, they ARE getting better. But I seriously doubt that these threads are "road maps to improvement" in terms of fakes. They're getting better, but they're probably getting better because of their own empirical research, rather than by perusing Jemsite's forums.

This information is FAR more useful to those people who are looking to buy their first JEM and are wondering what to look for as far as fakes go. The counterfeiters only care to an extent, and that's why they aren't bothering with retooling to make them *perfect*.

 

[dcord]

To think that they have no intention of trying to continue to improve would be scrambled eggs. Have you forgotten where they started with the gorrilla grip carricatures of a JEM? They've gotten it to the point where close inspection is needed, and if they start to address some of the dumb mistakes pointed out here it may be quite possible trained eyes will not be able to tell from a picture and only a critical inhand inspection will reveal the true origins. Note how close the new pop in bar trem is in a picture.

I agree with this too. They're going to try to improve, but only to the extent that their profit margin allows.

My point was that they aren't THAT interested in make exact copies, or they would have already.

 

[Rich]

Looks like retooling to me.