I have to say i agree for the most part altho i do think rusty in particular has done some very nice tunes but i could do without the constant shredding.

there are guys out there that combine both good/great technique with wonderful musicality besides the normal names (satch, vai etc)

Andy Martin
Macel Coenen
Rob Balducci

to name a few but to my ears mindless shred means nothin. there are players in the world who technique wise dont mean much but there music is pure brilliance and at the end of the day thats what matters even when we are talking technique driven guitar music.

well just my 2p anyhow

 

I agree. There were some dudes who played like that in that shredding contest I won last year. Note-perfect, perfect posture, all that stuff. Their music sounded like it was made by dudes who were thinking about music. Conversely, when I was playing I was thinking about how to get some alone-time with the Jennifer Aniston-lookalike at the bar, so as a consequence I guess there was something beyond music in my playing, and that usually tends to manifest itself as personality or vibe. Even if it is just dirty dirty hormones.

 

Listen to his CD. I like it very much, he tried to make the most intense piece of music, and I think he did well. Listen to the JEMfest interview of with Rusty; he explains it all: http://www.jemfest.com/jemfest_radio/jemfestradio_x4_rustycooley_92803.mp3

There's more shred excercises around than 'real' songs, so you might tend to believe that's the only thing he does. Well it's not. I have to admit; you gotta like it though, but that's with every piece of music.

I really get a kick by listening to, or watching to people that excel in their technical/musical skills on an instrument. Especially guitars; because I can tell how much work they must have spend learing it. Maybe it's just a phase of my life (like all the other phases...). :roll:

 

I agree that the shred for shred music is boring as hell. I played my sister some (non musician) and she just said it was the same thing over and over and got bored.

There is an element to virtuous playing that is exciting (how else did paganini become the richest solo musician of his time). But it is only an element of a performance, not the performance as a whole. :?

This doesn't only apply to the shred metal guys, ever watched a jazz fusion band play 3 rounds of solos with things turning into a bit of a chops fest? Read- Drum solos should not exceed the length of 3 minutes.

 

there are guys out there that combine both good/great technique with wonderful musicality besides the normal names (satch, vai etc)

Andy Martin

I'll support this one. I'm not that sure though, but I heard "Hand in Hand" by him and it rocks... well, one of those downloadable clips from his site. :wink: It rocked and it was melodical. Felt like saying that because I was really impressed.

 

if u liked that then get the album dude, its awesome i feel like such a suck up when i talk about this album but it realy is wonderfull.

awesome technique with even better musicality

 

I live in Honduras, man. I'll have to go through a lot of crap regarding shipping. And don't feel like a suck-up praising something that deserves it. I heard a small clip and was blown away by it. Hopefully, if I do visit the US this summer I might place an order.

 

Drum solos should not exceed the length of 3 minutes.

Me likes good drum solos - check out Jeff Sipe...

 

I love all the Rustey Cooley stuff, any shred I like! I dont like it for the musical side of it like Vai or Satch. I like it because I appreciate the skill and talent those guys have. I mean, my jaw is hanging when I watch Rusty and the likes, just like it is when I watch Vai etc. Its all different music and appeals to different tastes! Some will like it, some wont. Its said again and again, but it all comes down to tastes. Just listen to what ya wana and dont let anyone tell ya different!
Gary - The.Godfather

 

I think for most people, the need for non-stop shred is one that goes away with maturity on the instrument. When I first achieved a reasonable level of ability, all I wanted to do was shred. After a while, you begin to ask yourself "is this really interesting?" And over time, you scale back. IMHO, the best players don't stop playing at a high level, they just don't use every trick in the bag on every solo. You learn that it's ok if you don't use two-handed technique or alternate picking in every solo. Sweep picking does not fit every song.

IF EVERYONE TYPES IN CAPS ALL THE TIME, THEY LOSE THEIR IMPACT AND IT'S HARD TO EVEN CONCENTRATE ON WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE IT'S TOO DISTRACTING. EVEN THE PARAGRAPH YOU'RE READING RIGHT NOW IS PROBABLY STARTING TO ANNOY YOU, AND YOU'RE PROBABLY EVEN SKIPPING WORDS. IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE. WE DO THE SAME THING IN OUR MUSIC.

Many musicians learn to use the power of their talents to make an memorable impact on their audience. Now, when we only accentuate the KEY PARTS, the listener's attention is drawn to them and remembered.

But, not everyone draws the line at the same place. To me, John Petrucci is a completely robotic immature player. He's never gotten to the point that he can stop playing his assembly-line alternate picking. But to someone else, they might see those as the final emphasis after a long progressive riff.

In Rusty's case, I think the music appeals to less song-oriented audience. I would imagine that people buying that type of music are guitarists themselves, so the focus isn't necessarily great songs. It's good songs with great solos. Not for me, but others love it.

 

I love all the Rustey Cooley stuff, any shred I like! I dont like it for the musical side of it like Vai or Satch. I like it because I appreciate the skill and talent those guys have. I mean, my jaw is hanging when I watch Rusty and the likes, just like it is when I watch Vai etc. Its all different music and appeals to different tastes! Some will like it, some wont. Its said again and again, but it all comes down to tastes. Just listen to what ya wana and dont let anyone tell ya different!
Gary - The.Godfather

x2 :wink:

And for me it's also a HUGE source for motivation, not that I'll get _close_ to one of those guys; but I'll not die without trying...(huge amount of endurance here)

 

I agree 100% with what jem7vwh says; if someone who shouts all the time shouts at you it makes no impact, if someone who whispers all the time shouts at you, its has more of an effect.

What makes the fast part of FTLOG so chilling and effective? - he doesn't play at that speed the whole time.

I think Rusty Cooley's technique is humbling but i stick to what i sed before, i think turning "guitarist motovational clips" into songs for the public to hear isn't very effective.

 

Thank you Jem7VWH, you came up with the example I spent a good time trying to think up.
I was thinking, if all you eat is prime steak....but then playing fast ISN'T like prime steak, and also some people want to eat prime steak all the time...

Congrats

(kinda OT, but effective post man)

I love all the Rustey Cooley stuff, any shred I like! I dont like it for the musical side of it like Vai or Satch. I like it because I appreciate the skill and talent those guys have. I mean, my jaw is hanging when I watch Rusty and the likes, just like it is when I watch Vai etc. Its all different music and appeals to different tastes! Some will like it, some wont. Its said again and again, but it all comes down to tastes. Just listen to what ya wana and dont let anyone tell ya different!
Gary - The.Godfather

I can see this side of it, but I just find that my jaw can only drop so for so long, and for only so many times.

 

I agree jem7vwh, as I said, for me, it's probably just a phase in my life. I'm pretty immature concerning my guitar playing, and look at Rusty Cooley's guitar skills as I would look at 'Rambo' at the age of five.

Maybe when I'm mature lol I still like it, maybe not. Right now, I do. :twisted:

 

I think Rusty Cooley's technique is humbling but i stick to what i sed before, i think turning "guitarist motovational clips" into songs for the public to hear isn't very effective.

I disagree with you completely on this one. I'll admit, Rusty has a tendancy to veer into the excessive... but to write him off in that manner suggests a familiarity with his video lessons and one or two songs, and not his entire output as a musician.

Give "Jazzmine's song" or "War of the Angels" a listen sometime- both are melodic, well-written, "mature" songs with absolutely dizzying lead breaks. It's just that his instructional clips and billion-note-a-second shredfests like "The butcher" and "Under the Influence" (which, for the record, I LIKE, just for different reasons) tend to get a little more attention, because Cooley has the reputation of being one of the most over-the-top players out there, and thus people tend to want to see/hear him on his most extreme. I'm sure this is partly his fault, too; wanting to put his best foot forward technically, on the internet. It makes it too easy to overlook his more melodic side.

And part of the problem here is that a good part of his disc, "The Butcher" as a noteworthy example, was originally written as an Outworld vocal track. If it sounds like a guy playing absolutely blistering guitar over a backking track, that's probably because it is.

At the end of the day, though, it's cool if you don't like his playing- taste is subjective, and hell, I love his debut, but I also love Tom Waits and Nirvana, you know? but calling him "the death of music" is pretty extreme, and I'd say totally off-base, and a touch rude. I'm just glad there's guys like him out there making music- raises the bar for the rest of us.

-D

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is this- For me, Neil Zaza is Cooley's exact counterpoint in the instrumental world. Great player, excellent technique... but melodic to a FAULT. His "Staring At the Sun" album is about the most "hum-able" instrumental album I've ever heard (not to mention is covered with some of the best guitar tones I've heard anywhere).

and you know what? I love him for it, and i think "Staring..." is a phenominal guitar album. However, i like Cooley just as much- he too has a staggering command over the instrument, and has a hell of a melodic sense. It's just he chooses to use it in different ways. That's cool with me.

Now, what I'd REALLY like to hear is those two collaborating on an album or trading solos... They foil each other perfectky, IMO.

-D

 

Rusty Cooley the death of music??
No way.
Rusty has his place, just as Phil Collins, Menuedo, Anne Murray, and Slayer do. If you are only into say 70's songwriters such as Jim Croce, or James Taylor, then no, Rusty won't do a whole lot for you. On the other hand, if you're sitting at home in your spandex leotard with your hair teased up, jonesin for some super fast over the top scales and exercises set to a beat, then Rusty is your man.

 

Rusty has his place, just as Phil Collins, Menuedo, Anne Murray, and Slayer do.

Well said...

 

super fast over the top scales and exercises set to a beat

what is musical or creative about that?

I can understand that, as Drew said, perhaps I haven't heard the full extent of Rusty's musicality but I don't think you should have to hunt for musical songs.

 

super fast over the top scales and exercises set to a beat

what is musical or creative about that?

I can understand that, as Drew said, perhaps I haven't heard the full extent of Rusty's musicality but I don't think you should have to hunt for musical songs.

To some, including several of my guitar teachers that work for me, shred guitar is the highest art form of music there is. They all would prefer a Vai, Malmsteen ,or Cooley cd in their players over anything else you could think of.
Each ear hear's so differently that I am suprised we even have a such thing as a "music review" section in popular magazines and columns. I mean, hasn't someone ever told you to "Check out" a certain cd, because its "awesome". Then when you hear it, you are trying to figure out what was so special about that.
On the other hand, I own plenty of cds in my personal collection that were slammed by reviewers, loathed by my friends, hated by my wife, that I think are brilliant.
Rusty Cooley is a virtuoso, and whether his music tops my list or not, I will respect him for his talent, and I won't fault him for having total command of his instrument.
The beautiful thing is, if you don't like what you hear, you can immediately stop, and change to something else pretty pain free.

 

lol i have to agree with you there :lol:

 

Good words from GuitarWizard.

I have lots of shred on CD from the first Rising Force album on, and was into the Shrapnel thing in its heyday. But though I'm a guitar player, those things don't hold repeated listening interest for me, and when I think about it I prefer guys who are very good (maybe even great) players, but not considered technique monsters today. EVH, Rhoads, Schon, Marcello, Lynch, Bratta, Tabor (I'm limiting to just my rock list or we'd be here all day :wink: ). These guys aren't the hottest, but they're hot enough when they need to be, and there's a certain personality to their playing that *I* like to hear. You know what they say about opinions...

 

Good words from GuitarWizard.

I have lots of shred on CD from the first Rising Force album on, and was into the Shrapnel thing in its heyday. But though I'm a guitar player, those things don't hold repeated listening interest for me, and when I think about it I prefer guys who are very good (maybe even great) players, but not considered technique monsters today. EVH, Rhoads, Schon, Marcello, Lynch, Bratta, Tabor (I'm limiting to just my rock list or we'd be here all day :wink: ). These guys aren't the hottest, but they're hot enough when they need to be, and there's a certain personality to their playing that *I* like to hear. You know what they say about opinions...

If its true that most don't consider EVH or Rhoads to be players with monster technique, then I'm out of the loop, as I would put EVH and Rhoads both in a catagory of top 500 players to ever grace the instrument list.
To me, Randy and Eddie both are 2 of the best "all around" players. Both have killer rhythm, and although both are known as "lead men", their writing and rhythm are just as good.
I especially like Eddie. He's so unpredictable. Check out the solo on VH3's "Without You". I know many don't like that album, but not only does that song kick ass, but Eddie's solo is just awesome. There is that high compressed dive bomb- then all hell breaks loose, and its just pure improv.
I tend to like that fluid, never play the same thing twice style of playing.
If Angus Young or EVH play 5 solos, all 5 will sound different.
Rusty's playing, while fast and furious is strictly diatonic.
If Rusty's in G maj., you are going to hear him grab that F# note every 4th or 5th note to stay diatonic. He's such a highly skilled player, that is what his ear hears. He grabs that note to settle resolution in his mind I would guess.
Its all about what you like. If there was one perfect cd or album, we'd all own it, and no one else would be writing or recording music.
Thank god there is not.

 

Being brought up on Van Halen, Ace Frehley(Kiss) and Sabbath for me there has to be a song first. I like it when there are great licks within a great song. I can listen to zillion-notes-per-second playing for only so long. I like it for a time. It is interesting. But only in small doses.

It seems like those guys who have mastered the technique have to display it, or their efforts would be for nothing. What if they had learned to play a zillion-notes-per-second but opted to play slow blues music? That should not be out of the question, because just that you have speed in your arsenal doesn't mean it should be used ALL THE TIME. Then you are serving technique, not music.

 

Being brought up on Van Halen, Ace Frehley(Kiss) and Sabbath for me there has to be a song first. I like it when there are great licks within a great song. I can listen to zillion-notes-per-second playing for only so long. I like it for a time. It is interesting. But only in small doses.

It seems like those guys who have mastered the technique have to display it, or their efforts would be for nothing. What if they had learned to play a zillion-notes-per-second but opted to play slow blues music? That should not be out of the question, because just that you have speed in your arsenal doesn't mean it should be used ALL THE TIME. Then you are serving technique, not music.

Its all about prioritizing your strengths as a songwriter and musician.
Most people would say, for example that Paul Simon is a better radio friendly songwriter than Rusty Cooley.
Who has more technical skill???
While Simon certainly knows how to get his point across, I would have to say Rusty has a enormous level of technical ability.

Quiz time:

So if you are in the mood for a catchy, pop oriented tune, that your mom would hum, and your only choices are P. Simon or Cooley, Mmmmm....no brainer, right?

What if you are thinking, man, I'd like to hear some super fast shred guitar with some advanced sweeping??
Again....obvious choice.

Its chocolate or vanilla.
Somedays one just sounds better than the other.
Which is better???
Its all opinion, and even our opinions vary depending on our mood.

But to answer the topic question:
No, I don't feel that a musician from Texas, who has studied his instrument to the level of virtuosity, who focuses on super technical runs is the death of music. In fact, maybe it will just ask others to raise the bar a little in their own ability.